RAVEC - Prince Harry

[pilates]

Can someone explain to me the procedure and how this works?

There are two contradictions:

1. Did they leave because security was withdrawn making them feel unsafe (so the we really love the UK but we felt unsafe BECAUSE security would be withdrawn)

OR

1. They left and then as non working Royals in the US their security was removed but will be available in the UK when they do visit.

Neither is related to harassment or paparazzi but the actual sequence of events.

Harry and Meghan began with 2 but are now suggesting 1. Harry said that London was a trigger for him and they made a whole documentary showing everyone their wholesome Californian life.
Now he’s arguing that he can’t come to the UK unless provided with security ON HIS TERMS. No one is saying there won’t be security- there are high profile people flying in and out of London daily. It’s just that it won’t be on his own terms.

These are the same kind of contradictions and change of narrative that has become common. Esp around the Susan Hussey ‘racist’ comment which Harry insisted wasn’t racist, was an incident of unconscious bias and the media made too much of.

This makes one think that everyone from security rules to racism definitions are particular only to Harry and his family.

No, that wasn't;t my point in sharing it. Many on this board question whether they are harassed by paps at all, lots of people say if you don't want to be, you don't have to be, theres plenty of famous people that aren't etc and clearly, I could give more examples, that is not true.

No one is saying there won’t be security

Could you provide the details of what security he gets, or got on his last visits then? That he didn't pay for himself. I am not aware of those details.

Esp around the Susan Hussey ‘racist’ comment which Harry insisted wasn’t racist, was an incident of unconscious bias and the media made too much of.
Did he say, thats not racist? he said she didn't say it intentionally, thats what unconscious bias is. It doesn't negate that it can be harmful, but it's a specific term relating to intention. If you continue to ignore its harmful impact, that would be racist. Lady Hussey apologised to the women she offended. Do you have room for people to learn from their mistakes? Do you understand the difference between someone who literally believes white people to be superior, and someone who makes unintentionally offensive comments and apologies? remember too, the media and social media, hounded the victim of this incident, and she has been discussed disparagingly on this board too.

But the woman whom Susan Hussey said it to thought it was racist.
and it was the basis of this on which action was taken by the Palace and the RF.

Who made Harry (a white man) the arbiter of what is unconscious bias and racism??
Is it racism when it happens to Meghan and unconscious bias when it happens to another woman of colour???

@Iwantcakeeveryday This is the security he had (tax payer funded) for Philip’s funeral
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1425595/prince-harry-security-met-police-prince-philip-funeral-meghan-markle-archie/amp

He may have flown in with his own security team but the Met took over.

Don’t say he didn’t trust the Met. Because he was offering to pay them (As part of his court case). He can’t say I don’t trust them when they work for the public but I trust them when I throw money at them.

They also come from a place where, in Harry's previous life, every last squeak and gribbet would have been admired - at least to his face - by staff who had little choice if they wanted to keep their jobs

More on the security that will be provided to Harry. It’s from this article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67618927.amp

So back to my point. Harry will get security. It is not in the UK government and security services interest that he is hurt on British soil. HOWEVER. He won’t get to dictate what security he gets. Same as any other dignitaries who come here. Many many of whom are much wealthier than Harry.

So back then to my other bigger point: Harry wants bespoke things for himself (including wanting to decide what is racist and what is not) and his wife and then throws a tantrum when these are denied or questioned or inconsistencies are pointed out.

Harry will get security

He says in his court papers, after two visits to the Uk, he didn't feel whatever he had was adequate. So it's not the same as before, at least, and we don't know what level he got so it's hard to comment on the specifics. It's curious that suddenly them no longer being working royals means the threat is downgraded, don't you think? Because as everyone is keen to point out, the criticism, and I would say increased hate towards them, has come after they announced they were leaving. Former protection officers said the risk was as great as that for the Queen. People have been jailed for the racially motivated threats against Meghan. So I remain unconvinced that they needed a downgraded level of security simply because they announced they wouldn't be full time royals. Certainly, former Prime ministers still receive security paid by us, so if their risk is high even after leaving office, it's conceivable the same is the case for Harry and his family. His mother was offered it after the divorce too.

No one is suggesting that Harry isn’t a high profile target or hasn’t been subject to harassment. The UK govt via the Home Office based on these threat assessments has security plans for him in the UK. He disputes the nature of these assessments (I am more important than you guys realise) or these arrangements (you guys don’t know how to protect high profile dignitaries like me).
You can imagine this comes across as arrogant and the Home Office disputed this.

And in fact the only place where Harry has recently been ‘threatened’ as per his own account is a high profile car chase in NYC…

Are you suggesting he should be allowed to retain his armed police protection wherever he lives/ travels ?
When he has been over for funerals , Platinum Jubilee and Coronation, he came under the protection of the Royal household.

Harry seems to want the automatic security that comes from position held rather than threat risk assessment. The monarch and partner and the prince and princess of Wales automatic armed protection as with dependent children. Whilst in the UK and his higher level of threat it was probably easier for Harry (and William when the Queen was alive) and RAVEC to offer similar style to security that of those with 24 hour, rather than doing daily risk assessments. Harry not living in the UK it makes financial sense for security to now be risk assessed on individual visits, especially if visits are on royal property/events.

Thank you, @MangshorJhol - your posts have been very informative.

Yes, @Vespanest - with Harry it's about status. Status and entitlement.

he said, she didn't mean any harm. It's entirely possible for that to be true and for it to still be racist. The woman received and accepted an apology. What happened to her in the media and on social media, was worse for her and their wonderful charity, and she has spoken about the money the charity lost and that she had to step down from her role because of it. So I agree with Harry when he said the response from the press and online was horrendous. Both Ms Fulani and Lady Hussey asked that they be allowed to move on from the incident after they met. Harry was asked about it in the context of their own experience with unconscious bias within his family, and they clearly did not receive the kind of sit down apology that Ms Fulani received.

We don’t know his security arrangements because security arrangements are kept private. What it means it suggests to me is that if he say comes for a formal occasion for which the itinerary is well known then that security is say different if he comes by private jet to Balmoral and jets out (since Balmoral is covered by security) versus if he decides to visit a London nightclub.

That’s what bespoke case by case arrangements mean.
Former PMs who get security live here.
When Harry is here he gets security.
That security is coordinated by the Met Police and the Home Office.

Harry doesn’t trust this. But was willing to PAY for the same security. This is also the same security system all other high profile dignitaries to the UK are covered by even if individual arrangements differ (aka the PM of Tuvalu gets different arrangements to the President of France).

Harry seems to want the automatic security that comes from position held rather than threat risk assessment.

No, because he doesn't hold the same position so clearly not the case. He disagrees with your assessment, and that of the home office, that his risk level is any less than it was when he was in a senior working royal position. Harry is not the first person to take the home office to court.

I think we are violently agreeing with each other!

Anne, Sophie and Edward do not (AFAIK) have IPP status. They receive close protection only when representing the monarch officially - so on engagements and on certain overseas visits (so a high-profile foreign tour may get treated differently to a brief visit to Europe to attend a royal funeral)

You do not have to be an IPP to receive official close protection.

I think formal IPP status only got muddled in to this because of the early statements on the Sussex Royal website.

When Harry is here he gets security.

Again, we don't know the details as you say, so it seems like we can't really comment that its adequate or inadequate. You trust the home office, or Ravec, make the right decisions at all times. Others don't. But I don't think you personally can speak to whether or not he has adequate protection or how often he gets it, because we don't know any details about it.

Yet Harry does know? Unlikely.
He needs to heed the experts and consider evidence, rather than make demands.

That sort of information is never released

What we do have is the formal RAVEC position that his threat assessment will be reviewed for every visit, and that security commensurate with its findings will be provided.

I would think that arrangement is entirely reasonable, and can't see a problem there, @mpsw

I think it’s unfair to characterise it as “ I am more important than you guys” although I am sure it suits some royals and certain journalists to spin it that way.

I saw Harry explain in a tv interview that it was the really vile racist element of the threats that raised them above the run of the mill and made them more potentially dangerous. He argued that the RF didn’t understand that as they don’t experience it themselves. And he said that as a white person, it even took him a while to fully take on board the level and nature of racist hate directed at his wife.

The threat assessments for Harry's visits to the UK were obviously spot
on ....

His security isn’t being provided by the Royal Family so their experience of racism is moot. Whether the RF understands it or not is irrelevant.

It’s being provided by the Met Police and the Home Office. They don’t take their orders based on the RF’s feelings on racism.

If I didn’t trust the official security apparatus security in a country (that protects many global dignitaries) then I would stay away from it. I wouldn’t demand that this same security apparatus be altered Just For Me Because I Am Important.