Page 25 | Meghan, Duchess of Sussex spotted out and about

queentim · 2023-08-16T15:29:18+00:00

Recently spotted at a TSwift (allegedly), Barbie movie for her birthday, a restaurant, and then hanging out with friends in an Instagram selfie. She looks phenomenal in this photo! Glad to see she's enjoying her life back home with her family. [[https://go.skimresources.com/?id=470X756&isjs=1&jv=15.4.2-stackpath&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mumsnet.com%2Ftalk%2Fcreate-thread%3Ftopic%3Dthe_royal_family&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elle.com%2Fculture%2Fcelebrities%2Fa44820862%2Fmeghan-markle-selfie-casual-late-summer-style%2F&xs=1&xtz=240&xuuid=f5c1ccda10884f3a973f962ae2407013&xjsf=other_click__touchstart%20%5B%5D&cci=e70063536f35f9b6ae2d30f96c1f0572 Meghan summer selfie]]

MrsMaxDeWinter · 26/09/2023 08:52

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Mylovelygreendress · 26/09/2023 08:59

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Iwantcakeeveryday · 26/09/2023 09:06

MrsFiddle · 26/09/2023 08:43

The only thing I am going to say on all of this is that

"I had to work for people in other nations who I thought didn't deserve their position but they got it because of..."politics" and "nationality"..."

I did NOT say that. No one said these people did not deserve it. The interviewers from the country concerned asked a question but NOT THAT ONE. They were portraying a factual situation. The fact that people in their own country would be holding positions that they were not qualified to have.

I am not engaging in what is an obvious attempt to take these discussions the usual way - twist people's words, even lie about what they said to paint a racist picture in the hope that the poster will - what? - get so angry that they end up saying something that they will get deleted or banned. That is not going to happen here. I am sorry that some people feel this way and think I would be questioning myself as to why I am so intent on making other people the bad guy all the time even when it involves such appalling behaviour.

Why did you tell this story though? What did it have to do with the conversation that was happening here? nothing at all. SO if you don't want to offend, then don't randomly tell a story which depicts poc as not qualified for positions they hold.

Slothmoth · 26/09/2023 09:08

These threads are bloody weird! As a black woman my view is it's possible to acknowledge that there has been and is negative and nasty behaviour towards MM solely based on the colour of her skin; but also that its possible to not be a fan particularly and that having zero to do with the colour of her skin (although people's perceptions are skewed by what the media and social media feeds us which is often bias so it does. Someone who isn't a fan isn't necessarily a racist ffs, but again the hatred spewed and the over the top she's amazing wow i don't get at all (not on these threads necessarily but in general). What is she actually doing that's good or bad to evoke such polarising opinions?

Iwantcakeeveryday · 26/09/2023 09:11

Someone who isn't a fan isn't necessarily a racist ffs

This always gets trotted out when racism is discussed despite nobody ever saying it!

Slothmoth · 26/09/2023 09:20

Iwantcakeeveryday · 26/09/2023 09:11

Someone who isn't a fan isn't necessarily a racist ffs

This always gets trotted out when racism is discussed despite nobody ever saying it!

There are plenty of people on the Internet who do in fact say just that!

PrincessTigger · 26/09/2023 09:42

Meghan if you happen to be lurking (hi girl) we need you to get out and about again to rescue the thread

StormzyinaTCup · 26/09/2023 09:49

Just for you dear @StormzyinaTCup , my favourite detractor and bete noir, here...

Why thank you😘
Personally speaking I wouldn't let any poster become by bete noir. At the end of the day this is just a parenting forum consisting of random (mostly mums) that I don't know from Adam just chatting on what is a celebrity/RF gossip board. I don't take it much more seriously than that.

I wish you well in your research.

Roussette · 26/09/2023 09:52

the over the top she's amazing wow

I haven't seen anyone on here say that. She is not wow, she is a flawed human being like the rest of us and does not deserve the endless criticism about every single thing she does, both on here and in the media. That doesn't make her wow. I think she is fine, good at some things, not so good at others but not spawn of the devil.

MrsMaxDeWinter · 26/09/2023 09:56

The new modus operandi on these threads by certain posters is to hint ( often not subtly) that a poster is racist and go on the attack in the hope their comments will be deleted . Very unpleasant.

I am not sure how long you have been on Mumsnet, but comments only get deleted if they are reported. It has been a long standing position of many of us that, actually, we DON'T want racist posts deleted, because that way, it is less easy for the ostriches among us to deny that Mumsnet has a race problem. So no, that is not the MO. If you doubt me, look at the Susan Hussey threads, where we pleaded with MNHQ to let the racist comments about Ngozi Fulani stand as they were important to the discussion.

@Slothmoth I have been on Mumsnet long enough to know that there are more than a few posters who claim to be black, or to have black husbands and adopted children while also denying racism. It is called "blackfishing". The give away is when posters talk about "the colour of skin", as though racism is about surface appearance, when we know that racism is a structural societal issue that goes beyond "the colour of skin".

Such posters also take more umbrage at any talk of racism, than at actual racism, so use dismissive expressions like "it's not racist ffs".

@PrincessOfTigger Definitely we need to see Meghan out and about, not just to rescue this thread, but to give the tabloids new stuff to talk about because they are now resorting to excavating stuff that happened long before she met Harry!

Samcro · 26/09/2023 09:59

Iwantcakeeveryday · 26/09/2023 09:11

Someone who isn't a fan isn't necessarily a racist ffs

This always gets trotted out when racism is discussed despite nobody ever saying it!

so true. and nc will then post how they have been targeted

Lampzade · 26/09/2023 10:00

MrsMaxDeWinter · 25/09/2023 15:16

@MrsFiddle

It does make you wonder where online bullying starts and light hearted fun ends. You refer to white groups targeting 4 black women and doing research or something on them. It must be difficult to assign the degree of "light hearted fun" at times.

You are SO kind to express this interest.

Michelle Obama being accused of being a man, and of having kidnapped her daughters, is not light hearted fun. So it's an easy demarcation to make.
Likewise, Meghan being accused of fraudulently inserting children into the line of succession, is not light hearted fun. Serena, and Beyonce, being accused of fake pregnancies, and Serena being accused of being a man in drag, again not lighthearted.

I am looking into why some white women (mainly) are so keen to spread these conspiracy theories about these four specific women. Specifically, what is it that makes some (not all) white women hate these black women to the point of accusing them of being criminals and frauds. It's particularly striking that these are women who are, in many ways "firsts".

I am developing a number of theories and one of them is that it may be a scarcity issue: there is a feeling that they "got away" with something desirable to some white women that they don't believe black women also deserve, lots of money, a place in the royal family, tennis trophies, being part of a black presidency, etc etc and that these women have to be "exposed".

It's interesting to me that the one woman who has followed the usual trajectory associated with black women in the public eye, of being a successful musician, gets the least online hate of the three, but the three who have entered worlds considered "white" so tennis, the UK Royal Family, the White House, get a disproportionate amount of online hate.

I have spent a lot of time on various fora to understand it, and that includes Mumsnet, where the Meghan conspiracies have popped up. The difference between this and other social media forums is that the moderation tends to be better, but the attitudes are the same. Hence the strange love affair some posters here have with Thomas Markle and his white children, while fanning flames against Meghan and Doria.

I am also getting the sense that a lot of Meghan haters are isolated, alienated, and rather sad. It's the obsessiveness that gives it away, and the rage. There's research being done by others about how hating public figures is a way of bonding for alienated people. So there is a human side to it, that I want to understand.

Edited

All of this

Lampzade · 26/09/2023 10:11

Slothmoth · 26/09/2023 09:08

These threads are bloody weird! As a black woman my view is it's possible to acknowledge that there has been and is negative and nasty behaviour towards MM solely based on the colour of her skin; but also that its possible to not be a fan particularly and that having zero to do with the colour of her skin (although people's perceptions are skewed by what the media and social media feeds us which is often bias so it does. Someone who isn't a fan isn't necessarily a racist ffs, but again the hatred spewed and the over the top she's amazing wow i don't get at all (not on these threads necessarily but in general). What is she actually doing that's good or bad to evoke such polarising opinions?

???

Slothmoth · 26/09/2023 10:19

MrsMaxDeWinter · 26/09/2023 09:56

The new modus operandi on these threads by certain posters is to hint ( often not subtly) that a poster is racist and go on the attack in the hope their comments will be deleted . Very unpleasant.

I am not sure how long you have been on Mumsnet, but comments only get deleted if they are reported. It has been a long standing position of many of us that, actually, we DON'T want racist posts deleted, because that way, it is less easy for the ostriches among us to deny that Mumsnet has a race problem. So no, that is not the MO. If you doubt me, look at the Susan Hussey threads, where we pleaded with MNHQ to let the racist comments about Ngozi Fulani stand as they were important to the discussion.

@Slothmoth I have been on Mumsnet long enough to know that there are more than a few posters who claim to be black, or to have black husbands and adopted children while also denying racism. It is called "blackfishing". The give away is when posters talk about "the colour of skin", as though racism is about surface appearance, when we know that racism is a structural societal issue that goes beyond "the colour of skin".

Such posters also take more umbrage at any talk of racism, than at actual racism, so use dismissive expressions like "it's not racist ffs".

@PrincessOfTigger Definitely we need to see Meghan out and about, not just to rescue this thread, but to give the tabloids new stuff to talk about because they are now resorting to excavating stuff that happened long before she met Harry!

Edited

But if you'd read my entire post im not denying she has been subject to it, so I don't get what your insinuating, I haven't denied racism is at play here I even specifically said that in my post! But if you wish to selectively read or edit it then that's fine, you carry on- it highlights why any of these discussions are a crock of shit.

Slothmoth · 26/09/2023 10:20

Roussette · 26/09/2023 09:52

the over the top she's amazing wow

I haven't seen anyone on here say that. She is not wow, she is a flawed human being like the rest of us and does not deserve the endless criticism about every single thing she does, both on here and in the media. That doesn't make her wow. I think she is fine, good at some things, not so good at others but not spawn of the devil.

I even said I was referring to the internet at large, I don't dislike her so I'm not sure why people are taking umberidge, this is partly why I don't get it because several times I've asked what should be sensible questions and no one can answer yet picks apart and twists what I've posted.

Roussette · 26/09/2023 10:27

Slothmoth · 26/09/2023 10:20

I even said I was referring to the internet at large, I don't dislike her so I'm not sure why people are taking umberidge, this is partly why I don't get it because several times I've asked what should be sensible questions and no one can answer yet picks apart and twists what I've posted.

Show quote history

I saw your first sentence about 'these threads' and missed 'elsewhere too'. Apologies

I was referring to these threads.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 26/09/2023 10:31

Slothmoth · 26/09/2023 09:20

There are plenty of people on the Internet who do in fact say just that!

Show quote history

These threads are bloody weird! As a black woman my view is it's possible to acknowledge that there has been and is negative and nasty behaviour towards MM solely based on the colour of her skin; but also that its possible to not be a fan particularly and that having zero to do with the colour of her skin

If you don't mean this forum or this thread, then I am not sure why the sentence followed your opening sentence clearly referring to this thread.

Mylovelygreendress · 26/09/2023 11:50

MrsMaxDeWinter · 26/09/2023 09:56

The new modus operandi on these threads by certain posters is to hint ( often not subtly) that a poster is racist and go on the attack in the hope their comments will be deleted . Very unpleasant.

I am not sure how long you have been on Mumsnet, but comments only get deleted if they are reported. It has been a long standing position of many of us that, actually, we DON'T want racist posts deleted, because that way, it is less easy for the ostriches among us to deny that Mumsnet has a race problem. So no, that is not the MO. If you doubt me, look at the Susan Hussey threads, where we pleaded with MNHQ to let the racist comments about Ngozi Fulani stand as they were important to the discussion.

@Slothmoth I have been on Mumsnet long enough to know that there are more than a few posters who claim to be black, or to have black husbands and adopted children while also denying racism. It is called "blackfishing". The give away is when posters talk about "the colour of skin", as though racism is about surface appearance, when we know that racism is a structural societal issue that goes beyond "the colour of skin".

Such posters also take more umbrage at any talk of racism, than at actual racism, so use dismissive expressions like "it's not racist ffs".

@PrincessOfTigger Definitely we need to see Meghan out and about, not just to rescue this thread, but to give the tabloids new stuff to talk about because they are now resorting to excavating stuff that happened long before she met Harry!

Edited

I have already asked you not to engage with me . I will not comment on your posts provided you don’t comment on mine.
That may not be in the spirit of MN however I have found some of your responses to me to be patronising and borderline bullying .
Thank you .

Serenster · 26/09/2023 12:03

Roussette · 26/09/2023 09:52

the over the top she's amazing wow

I haven't seen anyone on here say that. She is not wow, she is a flawed human being like the rest of us and does not deserve the endless criticism about every single thing she does, both on here and in the media. That doesn't make her wow. I think she is fine, good at some things, not so good at others but not spawn of the devil.

There are plenty of posters here however who look at the cumulative behaviours of Meghan and Harry over the last six years and see a pattern of behaviour that very much tells us who they are.

Of course they are not the spawn of the devil, that’s a ridiculous suggestion. But they have shown us by their own words and deeds time and time again what matters to them and what their values are. If they received overwhelming criticism for a one-off mistake, yes that would clearly be unfair. But when they keep repeatedly saying and doing things that raise eyebrows (that’s being charitable), people are entitled to form a negative view of them. The slate is not wiped clean for each fresh issue. At least not for many of us.

Posters can shout that it’s all racism as much as they like. Surely, eventually, even they will at some stage get to a position where they will have to start to wonder if maybe, just maybe, this couple have just been showing us who they are for a long time now.

Roussette · 26/09/2023 12:06

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Serenster · 26/09/2023 12:08

No need to be snide, Roussette.

Roussette · 26/09/2023 12:13

Serenster · 26/09/2023 12:08

No need to be snide, Roussette.

How is that snide?

Gosh. I have far worse than 'skewed' levelled at me.

Feel free to report it if you find it is against TG

Iwantcakeeveryday · 26/09/2023 13:33

Posters can shout that it’s all racism as much as they like.

No poster has done that. Posters are inventing narratives that don't exist.

But they have shown us by their own words and deeds time and time again what matters to them and what their values are. If they received overwhelming criticism for a one-off mistake, yes that would clearly be unfair. But when they keep repeatedly saying and doing things that raise eyebrows (that’s being charitable), people are entitled to form a negative view of them.

This is just your opinion of course and many posters do not think they keep making mistakes or ones that matter, and that people are finding things to support the views they already hold. Many of the things discussed here are pure gossip, or criticism over things others have done/do but Meghan and Harry are held to a different standard completely. I think Charles has made many more mistakes than Harry, for instance, and he has also sold his whole life to the media otherwise they won't be relevant, including saying less than positive things about his mother.

I keep thinking, surely, eventually, even supporters of the royals will at some stage get to a position where they will have to start to wonder if maybe, just maybe, this family and this institution have been showing us who they are for a long time now. A family as flawed as the rest of us, just on a much bigger stage and who sadly are addicted to the attention, wealth and publicity to the point they'll sell each other out for popularity. Maybe one day the British public will realise the monarchy is an outdated institution that nobody should be born into, and nobody should be revering or supporting.

TallerSally · 26/09/2023 14:09

Iwantcakeeveryday · 26/09/2023 13:33

Posters can shout that it’s all racism as much as they like.

No poster has done that. Posters are inventing narratives that don't exist.

But they have shown us by their own words and deeds time and time again what matters to them and what their values are. If they received overwhelming criticism for a one-off mistake, yes that would clearly be unfair. But when they keep repeatedly saying and doing things that raise eyebrows (that’s being charitable), people are entitled to form a negative view of them.

This is just your opinion of course and many posters do not think they keep making mistakes or ones that matter, and that people are finding things to support the views they already hold. Many of the things discussed here are pure gossip, or criticism over things others have done/do but Meghan and Harry are held to a different standard completely. I think Charles has made many more mistakes than Harry, for instance, and he has also sold his whole life to the media otherwise they won't be relevant, including saying less than positive things about his mother.

I keep thinking, surely, eventually, even supporters of the royals will at some stage get to a position where they will have to start to wonder if maybe, just maybe, this family and this institution have been showing us who they are for a long time now. A family as flawed as the rest of us, just on a much bigger stage and who sadly are addicted to the attention, wealth and publicity to the point they'll sell each other out for popularity. Maybe one day the British public will realise the monarchy is an outdated institution that nobody should be born into, and nobody should be revering or supporting.

Excellent points!

MrsMaxDeWinter · 26/09/2023 14:41

As I have said before @Mylovelygreendress it is not on for you to respond to my posts by accusing me of stuff like calling everyone a racist, then when I respond directly, you tell me you are not engaging with me.

I am afraid you don't get to talk about my posts then expect me not to respond. Also, if you really don't want to engage, you can just ignore my posts, not make a point of addressing them, then when I respond, tag me to tell me you are not engaging. I am happy to be ignored by you. Thank you.

@Serenster no, it is not all racism. A lot of it is class driven, a lot is class envy, a lot is xenophobia and outrage that an American "actress" of all things, is in their beloved Royal Family. A lot of it is irritation because she walked away from a position a lot of women would love to be in.

The UK is very much a class driven society, and the idea that this "ungrateful American actress" walked away from all the hosiery and hat wearing-curtseying-bowing-protocol and balcony waving has enraged people who aspire to these things. Add that she still Duchesses herself all over Hollywood (as is her right, and she and Harry have titled their kids) and you add fuel to the fire.

I get that.

There is also the notion that if anyone can walk away from the RF, maybe it is not all that after all. To still these doubts, it is important that Meghan and Harry fail, hence the endless rumours about divorce, how unhappy they are, how Harry is homesick, how they are despised in Hollywood. There is a narrative that badly wants them to fail.

But.

But, but, but.

When posters have nothing good to say about ANYTHING that Meghan does, even scrutinising as you and others once famously did, the way she holds her hand to her face, when you itemise the Botox you claim she had (while howling that Kate has had none, none at all how dare you etc) , when the white Markles are defended and Doria vilified, then sorry, it is not about the cumulative behaviour of Harry and Meghan. Another thing that blows apart this argument is that even BEFORE they left the UK and said a word, even before they married, there were already negative threads about Meghan right here on Mumsnet, and on other forums.

I always laugh when I am told how the press and everyone in the UK was SO welcoming, like we all didn't see the stories about how her "exotic blood would thicken the Windsor blue blood", like we didn't see the "gangland royalty" headlines etc.

Meghan was othered and dehumanised from the first, before she said a word.

Just go to the DM story on the wedding and you will find no less than 11 000 comments, most of them negative, all along the lines: there's just something about her that I don't like. And the DM is apparently the voice of Middle England, and we know what that "something" was!