Queen Elizabeth

[Nono22972]

No disrespect to her but people and the media often talk about her sense of duty, her stability and professionalism but what would would say are some of the things in her last 15-20 years on the throne that you would criticise her for?

My obvious response is how she handled the Prince Andrew situation and staying on the throne as long as she did. She should've abdicated 10 or 20 years before her death, in my opinion

The whole story is so unbelievable and yet impossible to say it couldn’t happen again

Sadly many abusers and bad people are also immensely charming and manipulative. Charles, Harry and many other people are taken in and fooled by manipulative people. Despite huge wealth and privilege, the royal family are very sheltered from the real world and very trusting and, dare I say it, naive. Again, attempts to make an innocent party guilty by association is rather pathetic all round. Far from being in league with abusers or paedophiles, I think the people they con and manipulate are also victims. If I'd facilitated Jimmy Seville's 'charity' work and been taken in, I would feel betrayed and devastated, as well as guilty. The only guilty people are the perpetrators and the people who knowingly covered for them.

Louis Theroux’s programme about Jimmy Saville was an education. If that didn’t raise red flags I don’t know what would have.

The thing about these characters - Saville, Epstein etc - is that they are master manipulators. And people who are inclined to believe the good in other people will be taken in by them. Me, I’m an old cynic, charmers don’t get past me, but I’m constantly amazed at how far they do get with others.

Indeed @Ohpleeeease , master manipulators tend to manipulate the weak minded or those who are naive and trusting, it's no surprise to me that the royals are targeted, they have been cocooned and protected for decades, no idea of the outside world or how others live or behave.

No idea, and not likely to have while people fawn over them and allow them their rages and tantrums. It really is like minding toddlers sometimes. They’re a danger to themselves.

Your not wrong @Ohpleeeease , hopefully William , with Kate's family will have a better idea of things?
Or not who knows 🤷‍♀️

Absolutely. We all got slagged off for daring to criticise Sainted Jimmy fuckin Savile.

Yep @AutumnCrow , glad I'm not the only one who remembered the mass hysteria!

It is not only the weak minded or naive trusting types that can be taken in by these abusive manipulators. I have read that Margaret Thatcher was quite the fan of Savile and although I would call her many things, naive and weak-minded would probably not be on the list.

I'm going to be honest. I was taken in by such a man, a colleague, who I had no suspicions about at all. I think I'm shrewd and have good antenna for this sort of thing. Nope. He sat in the staffroom, chatting away, got on with everyone. Then images were found on his computer. It's years ago but I still feel sick about it. Why didn't I have a clue? How come he dealt with the most vulnerable of our students? I sometimes see his closest colleague and friend, and she feels horrified and regrets not spotting any clues. She's lost sleep over it.

@meercat23 - Thatcher was taken in, and she was very savvy. He groomed a nation. Shudder.

You are judging the past by today's standards. In that era boarding schools for the upper classes was completely normal and expected.
What did you expect? That she sent the four children to the nearest comp?

Don't feel bad , it happens to us all ! , some of the men I've dated were walking flags ! , I didn't see it , the public , charming face can be very convincing.
And we always hear from colleagues and neighbours how lovely most of these serial killers were!

I know, you're right, @jeffgoldblum - so I do have a bit of sympathy for Charles when he's so often criticised for his friendship with Savile.

I do too @Maireas , and ball , well he was a member of the church, a very religious man really would have trouble believing such accusations if they were denied emphatically, I imagine Charles was very upset and angry when the evidence came to light and he'd been lied to !

Watching a documentary on Elizabeth and Phillip. She was so pretty. Ahhh 😌

It's her amazing figure I notice @polkadotdalmation ! Very trim and slim but very shapely at the same time!

Beautiful dewy skin too, she knew to keep out of the sun.

I read that she asked Phillip why he'd chosen her when Margret was considered the better looking one and he'd apparently replied that she was the nicest one !

They were happy for 73 years! When he died, the late Queen said that even at the end he had that twinkle in his eye that she'd noticed all those years ago.

Awww 🥰, I love a love story, I'm a big softy for them .

Phil was a real looker when he was young 😍

Yes ! , very tall too !

They were lovely together and had a great marriage even though it couldn't have been an easy life. So many wonderful experiences but so much protocol to live under.

He said, "my job, first, second and third, is to support her".