Valentine Low book "Courtiers" Extra chapters for paperback. About statement after Oprah interview

[RYGO]

While they were as concerned as anyone about not getting into a tit-for-tat with Harry and Meghan, William and Kate were clear which side of the debate they were on. “They wanted it toughened up a bit,” said the insider. “They were both of one mind that we needed something that said that the institution did not accept a lot of what had been said.

“He said, ‘It is really important that you guys come up with the right way of making sure that we are saying that this does not stand.’ She was certainly right behind him on it.”

While some have attributed “recollections may vary” to Alderton, more than one source has said that the author was in fact Jean-Christophe Gray, William’s new private secretary, who had been in post for less than three weeks. At least two senior officials in other households were against its inclusion, because they feared that it would rile Harry and Meghan. But once the phrase had been added to the draft, it was — according to another source — the Duchess of Cambridge who pressed home the argument that it should remain. “It was Kate who clearly made the point, ‘History will judge this statement and unless this phrase or a phrase like it is included, everything that they have said will be taken as true.’ ”

This was, said the source, yet another example of how Kate is often far steelier than she appears. The toughened-up draft went to Buckingham Palace for approval, and came back a couple of hours later. The Queen had said yes.

The four-sentence statement was eventually released just before 5.30pm on Tuesday. It said, “The whole family is saddened to learn the full extent of how challenging the last few years have been for Harry and Meghan. The issues raised, particularly that of race, are concerning. While some recollections may vary, they are taken very seriously and will be addressed by the family privately. Harry, Meghan and Archie will always be much loved family members.”

so true. but people like to pretend otherwise. or victim blame.

That good ol article Mumsnetter forget daily.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal

Not to mention the racist headlines and leaks regarding the exit, palace staff calling Meghan names and telling the press about it. Oh, and Meghan making Kate cry among a plethora of others .

I would say the racist undertones are the worst.

So it does sound like 'recollections may vary', but from Mumsnet this time.

In fact 3 stories: story 1, story 2, the fact they’re talking shit about each other.

It also doesn’t work in terms of the hierarchy, Harry is lower down the pecking order. Tom Cruise couldn’t get a newspaper to back off by feeding them negative stories about Howard from the Halifax.

Damn, I lost a post.

Just want to add, there were over 25,000 complaints to IPSO in regards to Clarkson’s Shame article.

This is a record number of complaints to both IPSO and the previous incarnation, the PCC (Press Complaints Commission). So, I think this indicates just how bad the article was. The worst.

Nothing written about Meghan in the media has been as bad as that imo, but it’s been, by far and away, very very awful.

Added to that, the level of vitriol Meghan has received on social media is greater than that received by Kate. That is due to a number of factors, one of which is that Social Media has grown enormously. When Kate married into the RF in 2011 the Twitter user numbers, for example, were 117,000,000. When Meghan and Harry’s marriage happened the Twitter user numbers were more than double, almost triple,? at 321,000,000.

Twitter 2010 to 2021 in millions

2010 54
2011 117
2012 185
2013 241
2014 288
2015 305
2016 318
2017 330
2018 321
2019 330
2020* 353
2021** 396.5

More ‘opinions’ than ever before.

That’s just Twitter. Traditional media can take much of the blame for this. It led the way in many regards, wrote article after article - one day, in just one British tabloid, there were 60 articles criticising Meghan. Article after article criticising Meghan has served to inflame public opinion and stir up hatred.

I want to add that I have written multiple posts on here before, about the treatment Kate has received from the traditional media and how awful it was for her. And still sometimes can be. I’ve also posted on here about the cruel treatment shown by the media to Sarah and the other married-in-wives. I think most regulars on here know by now I am no fan of many media organisations. That I want a free media, but also a responsible one that considers consequences, not just for their bottom line but for the good of the societies we live in.

i work in pr and i think it was a great statement from the palace. it must have been a very difficult one to write as they had to get the tone just right. concerned and conciliatory but clearly they felt the need to inject some question marks over H&M’s accusations - without going all out war and accusing them of lying. they could have easily got the statement badly wrong but all in all i think they did a good job with it. it didn’t backfire on them and that can be the main objective sometimes with crisis pr! certainly was successful in terms of damage limitation at the time

For those who are once again trying to downplay the absolute cruel and hellish treatment that Catherine endured from the paparazzi, perhaps the videos below will show just how much she endured (all without palace security protection btw), as a young woman who was barely out of her teens. She was harrassed, stalked, called cruel names and yet she handled it all with grace, and rose above all the cruel things said and done against her. It takes guts to be able to withstand that kind of treatment:

Imagine facing the paparazzi directly, with all the cameras flashing at you, without any protection whatsoever and having to ask them to leave you and your friends alone. This shows a woman who has a backbone made out of steel:

https://twitter.com/isaguor/status/1153863081472253952/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1153863081472253952&currentTweetUser=isaguor

This article touches on the stuff that she had to endure, which was a lot more than just being called ‘waity katie’.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/dark-truth-behind-viral-tiktok-video-of-kate-middletons-preroyal-days/news-story/fdeb65deeda04305420784c281fcf56b?amp

A simple "vigorous investigation will take place" would have done just fine.

Not insult a whole big section of your own cw and country.

Later someone must have realised, because we were promised a diversity tzar - which I don't think was ever meant to materialise.

But, the horse had already bolted.

💯

It isn’t a race to the bottom.

Meghan has had some awful things said about her (on social media and in the media) there is no denying that.

But let’s not forget that Catherine had photos taken off her when she was sunbathing naked on private land and those photos were sold and printed all over the world to see.

And some people thought it was acceptable to try to invade her privacy with phone hacking etc. Let’s not forget that a radio show thought it would be funny to prank phone the hospital she was in when she was ill from Hyperemesis gravidarum whilst she pregnant with George. The poor nurse who answered the phone, Jacintha Saldanha, transferred the call to the nurse taking care of her and this nurse revealed private details of her condition, thinking she was talking to the Queen. The shame and public humiliation caused Jacintha to commit suicide.

They've both had to deal with shit and no one should be trying to one up the other.

And I’d like to add to my post that rather than playing these women off each other with who had it worse, your anger should be redirected at the misogynistic media (and social media) who think it’s fair game to taunt, bully and humiliate women for clicks and views.

My issue is that Meghan bought into the media’s strategy of playing the women against each other. Catherine has never said anything bad about Meghan, not in public at least. She has remained diplomatic in her responses whenever Meghan or harry is mentioned to her, as what Meghan should have done imo.

Here’s the quote I had the issue with:

“If members of his family say, ‘Well, this is what happened to all of us,’ or if they can compare what the experience that I went through was similar to what has been shared with us—Kate was called Waity Katie waiting to marry William. While I imagine that was really hard, and I do, I can’t picture what that felt like. This is not the same. And if a member of this family will comfortably say, ‘We’ve all had to deal with things that are rude.’ Rude and racist are not the same. And equally, you’ve also had a press team that goes on the record to defend you, especially when they know something’s not true. And that didn’t happen for us.”

Like, as a woman of colour, I get it. Racism and sexism aren't the same, but they're both equally bad and damaging to the people affected by it. Why Meghan had to mention that Catherine was called waity katy without giving the full picture of what she actually went through, it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

The line was perfect, it summed up perfectly that the sussexes weren't completely truthful about their narrative without being called outright liars. And their own words came to bite them back later on, as there were contradictions in their stories, one such example was harry claiming that as a child he never went on bike rides with his dad despite numerous photos of him as a kid riding on a bike with his dad, another was Meghan claiming that her passport was taken from her and basically implied she was trapped despite photos and videos shown of her going to New York to have her baby shower. And harry later claimed that it wasn't racism but merely unconscious bias. Even now, that recollections may vary line is still relevant because the sussexes (especially harry) still can't keep their stories straight 😂.

Here's the first part of the video of Catherine being harrassed by the paparazzi. To think that the photographer knew her schedule, her times, and would wait for her just so he could get a shot of her ‘tripping over’ so he could sell the photos at a higher price. I can't imagine how she must have felt at that time, that level of violation against her. And she had to face it all alone as a private citizen without any security protection. After going through all that, it would have been understandable for her to do what harry did and lash out at the media as she was every bit a victim of them. However, she continues to hold her head high and ignores the negativity, and holds a positive aura. That to me is admirable, it reminds me of Michelle Obama and how she presents herself.

How do posters feel "Recollections may vary" differs from "Whatever the cause, my memory is my memory... there's just as much truth in what I remember and how I remember it as there is in so-called objective facts"?

They both seem to accept that people's emotions and perceptions can affect memory (imo they can affect not just memory but how things are perceived while they're actually happening).

"Recollections may vary" doesn't include the claim that there is "just as much truth" in everyone's memories of an event so seems to me a better phrase, as in many cases it can't be true that all memories are consistent with the facts.
However, it doesn't mean anyone is wilfully lying.

In the end 'recollections may vary' proved to be a totally accurate statement.

Two years later, Harry backtracked on the racist accusation and stated his family were not racist after all,, but the comment that upset him and his wife was based on 'unconcious bias' (Although I don't know how very much different that is to racism 🤔)

Your own post quotes the context of why she had to bring that up.

It is not lies, as everyone is aware of that rhetoric of waity Katie and once more it is not the same as racism. Racism was over and above the name calling for Meghan.

And stop pretending that Meghan was not stalked by paps. She had men sleeping in cars outside her house, neighbour were told to direct their cctv to overlook her house. She had to have blinds and curtain down all the time and didn't know how to leave her house. She was followed when shopping with paps doorstepping her.

When (as your documentary is saying, she gave a polite smile or a neutral face (just like Kate, I should add) she was labelled as liking it).

I recall a chapter in spare when Harry had to do an engagement and she wanted to cook for him. She followed his instructions of jacket and lowered cap and went to the shop. A man came to her at the shop, said he wanted to take a pic for his wife who was a fan. When she politely refused, because the guy had been dodgy and now said he was taking for his mum. He became aggressive and told her she couldn't stop him and proceeded to film her around the shop. When she went to pay, everyone saw what happened and looked at the papers and whipped out their phones. She ran out of the shop to find 4 guys waiting to film her outside, apparently they knew where she was already. She was chased all over the place on her way back to the palace.

That is just one of the examples.

There was no hotline for her, nothing.

Both were bad, but you cannot deny Meghan had harassment plus racism to boot.

How do posters feel "Recollections may vary" differs from "Whatever the cause, my memory is my memory... there's just as much truth in what I remember and how I remember it as there is in so-called objective facts"?

This is what the phrase sounds like "whatever !"

You (the RF) call yourself Head of the CW, and you champion MH issues, and that is the answer you give. Very dismissive and rude!

Your own post quotes the context of why she had to bring that up.
It is not lies, as everyone is aware of that rhetoric of waity Katie and once more it is not the same as racism. Racism was over and above the name calling for Meghan.

did you not read what I wrote after? I stated they’re not the same but are equally bad as each other. I am a woman of colour, so I have experienced both and I can say that personally speaking, I found both experiences equally traumatic. For you to downplay what Catherine experienced to elevate what Meghan went through is sickening.

Also, did Meghan have to endure topless photos taken of her? Or what about having her phone hacked hundred of times?

There was no hotline for her, nothing.

Except she was given round the clock security by the tv show Suits, at least she had that.

Both were bad, but you cannot deny Meghan had harassment plus racism to boot.

that harassment didn’t include invasion of privacy such as topless photos taken of her and her phone being hacked, and yes I would say Catherine did experience a sort of discrimination (even if it wasn’t actual racism) when her own baby’s skin colour was made a news item in CNN, because it was speculated that her ‘commoner’ background would make it more likely for her baby to have a darker skin tone.

And regardless, as someone else said, this isn’t a race to the bottom as to who had it worse. My issue was one woman tried to downplay what the other woman experienced to elevate their own suffering and victimhood. Like, Meghan could have made it a point that all the royal women had to endure a special kind of media hell through no fault of their own apart from being in a relationship with a royal.

I disagree that there wasn’t outright lying going on. Here’s a specific quote from Meghan herself during the Oprah interview:

“You couldn’t just go. You couldn’t. I mean, you have to understand, as well, when I joined that family, that was the last time, until we came here, that I saw my passport, my driver’s license, my keys,” Markle said.

how is that possible that meghan was only able to obtain her passport when they moved to the USA when she went to New York for her baby shower? She would have needed her passport then to be able to travel.

Then there was Harry’s claim that he never got to experience bike rides with his dad as a kid, when there were numerous photos of him as a kid riding a bike with his dad.

Then there was the claim that meghan was denied mental help for her suicidal thoughts, as the palace didn’t want her to get her the help she needed, and yet Harry actually had his therapist on speed dial as he claimed in his book. Like why didn’t he get her the help she needed when he had access to a therapist all along?

Even the claims that the titles were linked to security was also incorrect.

Harry and Meghan also contradicted each other when it came to the baby skin colour claim. Harry said it happened one time, at the start, whereas Meghan claimed it was a series of conversations with the family member/s.

I understand people’s experiences can affect how they view a situation, like who made who cry during the bridesmaid fitting. However some of these stories I cited don’t fit into that.

I don’t think he’s suggesting she wrote the thing, just that she thought that point needed to be made.

It doesn't sound like that to me but obviously posters' perceptions also vary.

MamoruHisaishi

I disagree that there wasn’t outright lying going on.

Fair enough, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.
I'm sure the arguments about who did/didn't lie will continue to circle here with everyone doubling down on their established positions and I didn't want to get involved in that.

I was trying to say that, to me, both statements seem to say that people's recollections generally differ due to emotions/perceptions.
I'm afraid I don't see why "Recollections may vary" is so rude or dismissive or why it doesn't mean the same as the quote from Harry.

But, I'm also curious as to why Kate would insert herself in this conversation ? Is she or William the ones that made the racist concern then ? She does seem to have some kind of averse reaction to black people.

I rarely post on these threads because it’s all six of one and half a dozen of the other, but this (^^) this is a bold statement to make! Is there any proof to Kates aversion to black people?