The trials and tribulations of Harry - thread 2

[TrashyPanda]

Continuation of

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4812092-ph-lost-bid-to-challenge-for-right-to-pay-home-office-for-his-security?page=10&reply=126688485

I think the view that people have already taken that his phone was never hacked is more to do with people’s dislike of him, rather than the actual case.

I think this is where the misunderstandings take place. It's true some people just don't like him and want him to lose. But I think most people believe there is a good likelihood his phone was hacked on some of these occasions. But you have to have some evidence. And that's what people are sceptical about, that he seems weak on evidence.

However, in the Johnny Depp case in London, the judge did actually find that some incidents that had no evidence to support them happened because they were similar in pattern to other incidents.

Interestingly, in the US trial, a couple of those incidents were proven by witnesses to be not true. Not saying that the UK judge was wrong in his overall judgement against Depp but it illustrates that judges can make assumptions, sometimes incorrectly, in these civil suits that they probably wouldn't in a criminal suit.

So it might be that if Harry's scattergun approach of producing those articles might actually persuade a judge of just one article being obtained illegally, the judge might be of a mind to believe others that follow the,same pattern.

I believe that initially Harry submitted 120 or so articles to his lawyers and I guess they chose these as the most likely to succeed.

I have absolutely no doubt he was hacked and many questionable practices used to gather information on him.

ArcaneWireless

as always you’ve raised good points!

and yes he will have been stressed and prob why he’s come across badly today. Maybe once he’s gotten his bearings he will start sounding more credible

It is a selfish and arrogant to arrive that unprepared and despite having little else to do in life, not having learned his own arguments off by heart. I'm sure he was never keen on doing homework but the paperwork has all been done for him by others. All he had to do was show up when required and seem invested in the process. The court services are really stretched at the moment and it makes a mockery of his case.

I don't think there is 'lots of evidence' to come out from Harry. He's had a full day and you seem to be one of the few here who thinks he's come anywhere close to proving his case.

But, to be fair, this is quite a biased sceptical thread so I think it was always going to be the case that the majority would be inclined to rule against him.

Did Mr Coad not mean 'discomfited' as in made him uneasy or embarrassed? That's a standard way of describing a judge's response to someone's aberrant behaviour in court.

This what I was thinking, too. But would he need evidence from the other phone owner? I don't know.

Just to get my head around this - he has to prove that the information in newspapers for each article he's included in evidence could not have come from another source therefore it must have been phone hacking.

Isn't that going to be hard?

Are there any other witnesses to this case tomorrow? Or is it just Harry?

Really good points

I guess that's true, but I'm open to persuasion and I'm sure most others here are too.

Even those who support him don't seem to be able to point to any specific evidence, other than just 'the tabloids are rotten'. But we already know that.

Surely he just has to prove only one is true to prove his case he was hacked?

It's a civil case so he only has to show this 'on the balance of probabilities', not 'beyond reasonable doubt'. I don't think he's done that today however.

I understand. We're all trying to be even-handed. It's just our starting points maybe different. 🙂

Does he have other witnesses?

Honestly, court cases are a crap shoot. You just don't know how the judge will go.

@Haywirecity - the guardian only refers to Harry appearing tomorrow

It was recognised, thr news of the world went bust because of it. What he’s now trying to prove is the mirror group is also guilty, but so far he seems to be unable to prove it didn’t come from other sources, inc the palace statements,

No he has to prove on the balance of probabilities it couldn’t have come from another source so likely had to be hacking. The issue is there are multiple other sources, inc palace statements or his own interviews before the article.

Honestly, court cases are a crap shoot. You just don't know how the judge will go.

exactly - it was the same with the Depp/heard case, so much to tangle in terms of probable / conjecture etc

will it be in his favour that’s it’s a judge rather than a jury, I guess we will find out

Wasn't his evidence meant to be a day and a half?

Thanks, Panda. I don't know what to make if it all really. I just feel there's got to be more somewhere and it might come out tomorrow. If Harry wins, it might change how I look at these hacking cases in future.

I think I need to read all the evidence through carefully...or I might just walk the dog round to pick up a chippy tea!

Just read the BBC...so they are relying on past cases, and drawing similarities to make the 'balance of probabilities' case. So pretty much a 'if it looks like a Duck, walks like a Duck' etc

Chippy tea sounds lovely!

I’ll confess to being sceptical.

The outrageous sleekit allegations alluding to his parentage has my sympathy all day long.

I’m sorry but I just find it a wee bit of a reach that he was unaware of the circumstances and timeline of the affair/relationship until so very much later.

It could be that he was so wrapped up in cotton wool/protected that he was genuinely unaware. But surely he would have asked?

Some things just aren’t sitting - hence my scepticism. But I’m open to be convinced.

If he does not get a positive outcome and is ridiculed instead, it is going to be disastrous for his mental health. Litigation is always inherently risky. If you pin all your hopes on it's outcome then you are making yourself very vulnerable.