should the coronation be abolished

[Flute56]

Britian is the only European country with a monarchy that still has a coronation. Other countries have either abandoned the coronation or have never had one.

Do you think Britain should abandon the coronation or keep it

Coronations differ from inaugurations in that a state religion is involved

Genuinely interested to hear how you think this is not the case in the US, where the presidential oath is sworn on a bible (or two), the President declares “So help Me God” at the end of it, and prayers are said. The President Elect also attends a morning church service before the ceremony and there’s a prayer service the day after, too. And given the hold that the Christian right has on republican politics in the US these day, up to an an including Supreme Court appointments, it’s very hard to see the divide between Church and State there.

The Coronation service was Anglican in form, yes, but also attended by leaders of all the main UK religious groups involved in the ceremony.

Why are you so rude?

Does it make you happy to insult people with a different view to you?

I don't want it to move with the times. Thanks.

I'd favour a simpler coronation, perhaps in the Throne Room of Buckingham Palace.

The monarch in my opinion should be able to be of any religion of choice, or none, just as we are.

Of course that’s true. But every event attended by protestors int he last few months, all around the country, they have been dwarfed by people who, clearly, do consent to the monarchy and make that clear too. So public consent is currently on the side of the monarchy.

Does it make you happy to insult people with a different view to you?

Talking about “sky fairies” is pretty rude to people with a faith. Both sides aren’t covering themselves with glory on this thread.

Don't we know it! There is no getting away from that. However, that doesn't mean they can't make their voices heard. Good on them I say.

But unfortunately because of the Public Order Bill, even fervent monarchists get arrested too. As Alice Chambers did.

So, because someone said something rude... a poster can just join in and add to the insults. Rightio!

Or maybe, if you’re going to take posters to task, start with the first offence…

I didn't even see the first offence. As with anyone on here, they read the latest posts and comments.

I am not a Moderator.

Saying someone else said something unpleasant so anything goes is a bit much

The consent is en masse though, not individual. Saying #notmyking doesn't make him any less your king!

By the way, if anyone thinks the pomp and circumstance of the coronation is some sort of long standing tradition they should really look into the history of the coronations of the kings and queens of Great Britain.

The ritual was only written down after the botched coronation of Victoria, when they realised that not having a script and not doing rehearsals wasn't such a good thing. How to crown a king or queen has been a constantly evolving ritual.

How to crown a king or queen has been a constantly evolving ritual.

When we don't even need to do it at all. He became King the day after the Queen died (pen-gate)

I like the history - the bits that go back the music Handel's Zadok the priest played first for George II, the 6 century bible, the coronation chair and the various bits of bling he got presented with.

However I'm not sure it will happen again and if it does I think they will try and cut it back even further though TBH the traditions evolve each time. The coronation-banquets used to be the big bit - till George IV massively over spent.

It might be moot point anyway as not so sure the RF will endure to actually have that many more opportunities for coronations.

I don’t see why it won’t endure. I’m not seeing much appetite politically to change our set up and most people do want to keep it.

Agree on Handel etc

@Roussette Ah yes, "pen gate" and the strop in the carriage, which awaited, and waited. Bet Camilla was on tenterhooks wondering if Charles would kick something in anger whilst walking up that aisle of doom.

I also thought that there was an element of indecent haste in him signing all those documents to become King the day after (I think) the Queen died. Maybe it had to be done at speed in case of revolt by the peasants!

Anyway, I've often wondered if the ceremony was "pay per view" how many would have bothered watching it? And I do think a ceremony of sorts is ok, but nothing like what we witnessed last Saturday. A simple ceremony for family and men in dresses and capes (priests) only. No foreign dignitaries or HOSs, then an appearance on the balcony to wave to the subjects. I'd live with that, it would be so dignified and at the same time marking the occasion.

The ritual was only written down after the botched coronation of Victoria, when they realised that not having a script and not doing rehearsals wasn't such a good thing. How to crown a king or queen has been a constantly evolving ritual.

I listened to a fascinating series of podcasts about this actually, and that’s not quite true - the key oaths (the only part that is legally required) date back to King Edgar’s crowning at Bath Abbey in 973. They have of course changed language as the liturgy changed - so Latin, was then French for a couple, then English. And the wording has been tweaked as the composition of the Kingdom changed over time too. The anointing goes back that far also.

Yes there seems to be a deathly silence from the monarchists about the American idol and Tom Cruise clips 😁

Also, when people say, they reign by consent, I think consent should equal positive affirmation rather than lack of comment! Or the arresting of protesters who comment loudly!

I was just reading about Alice Cambers Roussette. As an aside, don’t you think it’s despicable that the case has been moved to Lincs police because the arresting officer was from there? I almost feel sorry for that policeman! Even though I thought it was disgraceful that a free and innocent Australian citizen working here legally, can be thrown in jail for thirteen hours! No support from the arresting officer’s superiors and carrying the can for upholding what was obviously a blanket policy from on high!

Yes there seems to be a deathly silence from the monarchists about the American idol and Tom Cruise clips 😁

I have no idea what it is, I think republicans in general spend more time engaging with this stuff. And talking about RF

I think it is extremely tone deaf in this day and age, and the 'bread and circuses' aspect is particularly distasteful.
It feels like a throwback to the subservient films of the 30s, 40s and 50s when some cloth capped cockney would cheerily chant 'Gawd save 'is Majesty'.
I sincerely hope it will wither away as the older generation (of which I am one) die out.

I’m not seeing much appetite politically to change our set up and most people do want to keep it.

I think William will be King - unless KC does something politically stupid and get the politicians shaken up - not so sure about his son.

I think the apathy towards RF will increase with time and it will be seen as increasingly out of step and that may - depending on many factors - mean political parties start to get onboard with change.

Change brings unknown risks - I just think this may be less dauting to younger generation or they may age to the if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality.

100% Keep it!

If we're going to keep our national, ceremonial hamsters we might as well let them run around their wheel every now and then. And I do think we should keep them, but we need politicians that are well on top of how we use them to our maximum advantage.

👏👏👏👏👏

I also thought that there was an element of indecent haste in him signing all those documents to become King the day after (I think) the Queen died. Maybe it had to be done at speed in case of revolt by the peasants!

Under the Bill of Rights 1689 and the Act of Settlement 1701 Charles actually became King the moment his mother died. Parliament and the House of Lords were legally required to meet on her death under the Succession to the Crown Act 1707.

The timing of the Accession Proclamation stuff (pengate 😀) that happened on the Saturday morning was not mandated by law, but custom, and normally takes place as soon as practical - it was delayed in 1952 for example as QEII had to first fly back from Kenya! Had the Queen not died towards the end of the week I suspect it may have taken a few days longer, as a Saturday was presumably a convenient day to get all the attendees together.

Well it’s good that some sections of society apply objective thought to important matters such as our constitution and if we want an elected head of state, rather than just being taken in by the bling, ancient artefacts and lovely music?

I enjoy the latter as much as anyone btw but I happen to think it’s immoral to have such wealth and privilege embedded at the heart of our country. It’s not about the individuals involved, although I can’t say I feel drawn to many of them, it’s about the institution.