In 3 years a Jubilee, Coronation, 2 x state funerals - how much?

[4plusthehound]

Seriously - since 2021 we have had 4 massive events.

Why is it so hard to find the costs / spend.

Not the usual "a pound per person, worth it, billions in tourisim".

Transparent, freely available, hard core numbers?

How much did we, as a nation, spend on these events in the past three years?

It should be easy.

We aren't likely to have another big Royal event for 20 years. Either Prince George's wedding or King Charles funeral.

We will probably never see a platinum jubilee again. It was the first in the UK's history.

Many of us may never see another jubilee at all.

There hasn't been a coronation for 70 years, most people will only see a couple in their whole lives. Spread the cost over the years and they are very reasonable.

This. And it’s pretty bloody obvious that a coronation will follow pretty smartly on the heels of a monarch’s funeral. It’s the first state funeral and coronation we’ve had for 70 years, the Queen saved us millions with her long life. Philip’s funeral, modest by Royal standards and in lockdown, barely cost anything. I don’t expect to see any more major royal events in my lifetime, it’s unlikely that the King will have any kind of jubilee celebrations, I might see another funeral and coronation if I have an extremely long life. I’m not holding my breath.

If we don’t have royal occasions then as a country what do we have to celebrate? Not likely to win the World Cup anytime soon.
We pay our millions for these occasions but at least a high proportion goes to UK workers: police, servicemen etc and therefore stays within our country’s economic circulation.

One thing the RF do not want transparent is their wealth, income and expenditure. They're happy to change laws to benefit them in terms of inheritance, marriage etc but not to reveal their wealth. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/05/how-the-british-royal-family-hides-its-wealth-from-public-scrutiny

The RF personally reprimanded 91yr old Tim O'Donovan for keeping a tab on the engagements they attend which can be used to show how much time they spend in "service" in a year. Mind you, "service" or "work" isn't what anyone in the real world terms work. It's actually fun things commoners use their hard earned wages to pay for to attend or take time off work to attend. Eg elaborate dinners, lunches, parties, giving trophies at Wimbledon, opening new buildings, attending concerts, meeting celebrities etc. Unlike the average peasant who buys their own clothes, their travel ticket and makes their way there. These people have chauffeurs, personal staff, ladies in waiting, chefs, butlers etc who do everything including wake them up and pick their clothes. However, when discussing what they do it must be described as "work". https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/world/europe/uk-royal-family-workload.html

"Every year, Mr. O’Donovan releases a comparative table listing the number of engagements attended by the highest-ranking royals, setting off a flurry of barbed commentary in the British news media. The feeding frenzy comes because Mr. O’Donovan, intentionally or not, has effectively invented a metric of how much the members of the royal family work." https://whorunsbritain.blogs.lincoln.ac.uk/2018/01/13/mr-odonovans-annual-survey-of-royal-engagements/ You can see William and Kate did the least "work" aside two older members.

Here's a good clip every tax payer should listen to https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2023/may/01/cost-of-the-crown-part-1-valuing-the-family-podcast

Thank you @StrawberriesSW1 .

There sis a lot there for me to read - I will be back!

We know how much the Sovereign Grant is because that is determined by the government each year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sovereign-grant-act-2011-guidance/sovereign-grant-act-2011-guidance

At the moment it's £86m, which compares with about £4b for the Department of Digital Media Culture and Sport.

Most of the money goes on upkeep for the Royal residences.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-57559653

Of course, the Royal Family have lots of other private sources of income, as well as the more well known ones like the Duchy of Cornwall. I don't suppose any estimates are completely accurate because, unlike places like Sweden or Norway, we don't expect people to record their income publicly. However, I think the Duke of Westminster (mainly property) was wealthier than the Queen and now presumably the King.

The big taxpayer expenditure is on security - the daily expenditure on security officers and the separate expenditure on large events. There are lots of quotes for the cost of security at the Coronation but these aren't finalised yet. However, this is not just security for the Royal Family but also the costs of security for foreign heads of state etc, as well as the general public. The other cost is on preparation, like the procession, on the assumption that we can separate these costs from other parts of their jobs.

Employers have to pay the costs of an additional Bank Holiday but retailers and leisure businesses will recoup more in extra sales. I personally think the cost to employers statistic is unhelpful as it doesn't take account of any extra employee wellbeing from having an extra day off.

As for how much 'work', the Royal Family do, the Palace publishes a list of engagements each day. I believe Princess Anne is always near the top of the annual list of engagements but presumably other less busy members of the Royal Family 'make' more per day in terms of attracting tourists and well wishers etc.

I think the answer to your question, 4plusthehound, is not that we aren't given access to information on the costs of the coronation etc but that it is a complicated answer that needs to include a lot of different costs, most of which are spread across different sectors of the economy and public expenditure.

Thanks @StrawberriesSW1 I’ll definitely be listening to the podcast.

Most of the money goes on upkeep for the Royal residences*

Spending rose by 17% to £102.4M. Royal spending was up by £15M. BP renovations was £64M so it is incorrect to say 'most of the money'. 25% of crown estate profit went to the Monarchy of which 10% is for BP. The Monarchy receives 15% so not 'most of the money' going on upkeep for royal residences!

You may find this an interesting article. Because of the law brought in by the Tories, Charles is on course for a SG of £330M, this was due to be debated in parliament, now postponed until after the Coronation. I will be waiting for that.

Bear in mind the Crown Estate made £1billion in January from windfarms. Charles has pledged to give it back. However that is just theatre with Charles saying that, because he has no right to keep that money anyway, good PR though!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/05/how-tory-royal-funding-deal-gave-rise-to-king-charless-potential-cash-windfall

You could try asking the Royal household. Although their website says they don't HAVE to respond there's a chance they might provide the cost of the event.

Obviously this won't cover losses in revenue and policing etc. so it's a bit piecemeal.

I would also like a clear total with breakdown.

From the Royal Family website

^The Royal Household is not a public authority within the meaning of the FOI Acts, and is therefore exempt from their provisions.
Despite its exemption from the FOI Acts, the Royal Household's policy is to provide information as freely as possible in other areas, and to account openly for its use of public money. For example, full details of public funding of the Head of State have been provided since 2001; annual financial reports covering the arrangements under the Sovereign Grant will be posted online in June of each year.^

We also had an extra bank holiday in 2020 (for VE day), but this was in the middle of Lockdown, which cost far more in lost GDP.
So, you actually have to look at the cost of the occassion itself.
The service men will be getting paid anyway. The Carriages already exist and are normally held in museums, etc.
There will be clothes and other garments bought and sold.
There will also be tourists coming oer contributing to the GDP and it has been said the country makes more than it costs. I do not know, but can only go by what is reported in the newspapers.
As far as I know, there were certainly fewer street parties for this coronation, and I believe that due to 'street party fatigue'. I think people made an effort last year for the jubilee, but found it too much to do again.
On a personal level, I was out most of the day, so it did not affect me very much.

Plenty of shops, cafes, restaurants and pubs still open. There’s no extra day holiday, for millions of people.

I get 28 days paid holiday same as most people, and bank holidays don’t exist in hospitality land.

UK has one of the lowest numbers of Public Holidays in Europe.

We need to be looking elsewhere for reasons if our economy is so fragile that occasionally having an extra one (that still leaves us short of the amount in other countries) is a cause for GDP concerns.

Mind you, "service" or "work" isn't what anyone in the real world terms work. It's actually fun things commoners use their hard earned wages to pay for to attend or take time off work to attend.

And don't forget that, when they've been chauffeured home, they don't need to turn to and cook the dinner or get the vacuum out or do the ironing. For most commoners, coming home after work to find all the housework done and dinner waiting for you would be a huge treat in itself.

Yeah and who’s paying for the “year off” from bloody covid and all the money that was wasted on that shitshow.

go and add the figures up on the cost of all that then come back and moan about the royals.

the more I see of these chippy republican whingefests the more I’m grateful for a constitutional monarchy

I presume somewhere there will be a cost, but these things are not always as straightforward as it seems.
For example, the security would (I presume) come under the metropolitan police, but other officers would have been drafted in from other areas. So, I would think the security would be a measurable cost.
The RF usually pay for their own clothes, though I have no idea whether this applies to the ceremonial robes that Charles and Camilla wore. Guests will have bought their own clothes. If new, this would have aided the economy of the country (and of other countries for foreign dignitaries).
The various historic items, sword, orb, etc already exist; the 'throne' is 700 years old, and possibly coronations are the only time it is used.
The military get paid anyway, but again many were brought in from other areas. I noted that some ceremonial dress were now embroidered with CR instead of ER. So this would have been a cost, but would have benefitted whoever was commissioned to do the tunics. My former BIL was in the military (grenadier guards) and from him I understand that it is generally considered an honour if you are one of those selected to take part.
Westminster Abbey was obviously closed to tourists (I think there is normally a charge to go in?), but London had attracted lots of tourists especially for the event, so a boost to hotels and restaurants, etc. Also, the TV pics give an indirect boost (promotion) for somewhere tourists may wish to visit on a future visit. I am sure many will now want to see the crown jewels in the Tower of London, knowing more about them, and knowing they were last worn by Charles and Camilla.
The TV rights were sold around the world to other countries, so this is a boost to the economy.
There is also the coronation items that had been produced for sale, such as flags, buntin, mugs and china; not just the official ones, but it seems every shop has managed to produce some mugs, etc.
I have obviously missed out loads of things, and this is just the coronation; we also have the concert. And I understand there were other things laid on for the other Royals. I saw news footage of Mrs Biden being welcomed at 10 Downing Street by Mrs Sunak (soft power, I would say).

I phrased that very badly - we did not have a "year off" obviously. I meant a year at home/lockdown.

I think that we need to add all these things. They are a part of our whole economy.

Something struck me a few weeks ago - an economist on the Today show (BBC R4) said the UK is now one of the poorest countries in Western Europe. It is hard to think of ourselves/our country like that.

The main reason for it according to her is that we do not invest in research and developement.

We seem to have money but choose to spend it in a way that does not help the country.

The royals are very expensive. The problem is we don't know just how expensive.

The governmnet would not allow you away with that would they?

It is wild.

It's interesting that if you ask an awkward question online the people who don't want to go into it too deeply always tell you to google it!

😁😁😁

And in this case it is so hard to find anything without the whiff of PR about it.

Would you rather we'd thrown HMQ and PP in a wood chipper @4plusthehound? I think she deserved a Diamond Jubilee too, how many 96 yos were/are performing on the world stage?

Bear in mind the Crown Estate made £1billion in January from windfarms. Charles has pledged to give it back. However that is just theatre with Charles saying that, because he has no right to keep that money anyway, good PR though!

Actually he has every right to keep it, in law.

But I don't see him or any future monarch - changing the voluntary surrender arrangements. They get enough to keep the Crown glittering; the government get additional revenue into the general exchequer(the amount surrendered is consistently considerably more tan the amount returned in the SG