Is Camilla the first previously divorced Queen?

[Munchies7]

I recall from the time of Charles and Camilla's wedding that we were told she would be Queen Consort and not Queen. I believe this was a way of appeasing the people who were displeased at the way Charles treated Diana. I'm wondering if Camilla is the first divorced Queen.

Which monarch changed [something] to allow divorce?

England has had Queens (consorts) that have been married before but widowed, e.g. Katherine of Aragon who was married to Henry VIII's older brother Arthur, but I can't think of a divorced one, no.

'Divorces' were often actually annulments anyway.

Eleanor of Aquitaine comes to mind. Previous marriage to Louis VII of France annulled due to consanguinity but it was definitely a 'marriage', produced two daughters. She then married Henry II.

There are two sorts of Queen. Queen Consort (married to a King) and Queen Regnant (Queen in her own right, eg Queen Victoria). Nobody called Queen Elizabeth II the Queen Regnant, just the Queen.

Divorce is quite a new phenomenon as it used to be either annulment or death, hence Henry the 8th, his many wives and his new religion.

Camilla is the first divorced Queen of Britain, but the current Queen of Spain, Letizia, is a divorcee. That was considered quite controversial at the time, as the Spanish monarchy is Catholic.

I think the way it was spun was that Letizia's first marriage was only a civil ceremony and therefore she was free to marry Felipe in a church?

There have been quite a few queens who were widowed, the most controversial of them was probably Elizabeth Woodville.

I didn't know that but it would make sense as some sort of 'explanation' would have been required to allow them to marry in church, especially with Felipe being a future King and all that. Kind of like when Carrie and Boris got married!

All the Queens that were married to the reigning King were Queen Consorts. All of them.

They just were commonly referred to as Queen <name>, just as is being done with Queen Camilla.

I have lost count of how many times this has been pointed out. Sigh.

Actually their official title was HM The Queen, regardless of whether they were consorts or regnant. Consorts only assumed the title of Queen FirstName after they were widowed. (The Queen Mother was an exception because she had the same first name as her daughter and presumably 2 Elizabeths could've got confusing.)

If the palace starts referring to Camilla as Queen Camilla rather than The Queen then it'll be another departure.

Is this a joke? Did the life of Henry VIII completely pass you by?

I never knew that about Eleanor of Aquitaine, thank you to the poster concerned.

I've always found it amusing that Eleanor's first marriage was annulled because she and her husband were something like fourth cousins. And then she promptly remarried to another fourth cousin!

I think Camilla is also the third queen who had children from a previous marriage.

None of Henry's marriages ended in divorce. They were annulled.

@IcedPurple I feel I should know this but were the marriages to Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard annulled before they were executed? It feels brutal even for Henry to execute someone who is still your wife. I have a feeling the Boleyn marriage was dissolved before her death because Elizabeth I was then declared illegitimate, but Katherine had no children

She was actually even more closely related to Henry than she was to Louis, they were third cousins 🤣

She just really didn’t like Louis. She tried to have the marriage annulled after the disaster of their Crusade, but the Pope intervened and made them share a bed and that’s how their second daughter, Alix, was conceived. Ironically, having another daughter was what convinced Louis to agree to the annulment as he needed a male heir.

People suspect that she was secretly plotting to marry Henry before she even had her marriage to Louis annulled considering how quickly they married after the annulment came through.

I love Eleanor 🥰

@SydneyCarton He annulled his marriage to Anne.

They tried to say that she had a pre contract to Henry Percy (which was essentially declaring a promise to marry and therefore nullified other any other marriages) but he wouldn’t play ball so they had it annulled on grounds of consanguinity as he had had a relationship with her sister, Mary, and therefore their marriage was seen as incestuous in the eyes of the Church.

They tried to annul his marriage to Katherine Howard by saying she was pre contracted to Francis Dereham. It’s actually quite sad, Cranmer really pushed her to admit it as it would have saved her life but she denied it and said he raped/seduced her.

Thanks @SnottyLottie . I remember the Percy pre contract thing but didn’t realise Henry finally wiggled out of it on the grounds of having seduced Mary Boleyn 🙄

I think Katherine said on the scaffold that she died the wife of the king but would have rather died the wife of Thomas Culpepper, who she did seem to have genuinely loved.

Thank you for adding a classic mumsnet rude reply on my thread.

Reminder: not everyone on Mumsnet is as intelligent as you.

Heres some terrible grammar for u to get you're teeth into

@SnottyLottie What I find most interesting about Eleanor is all the mythology that's grown up around her. She actually didn't wield very much power while her husbands were alive - it was only after Henry's death that she really came into her own. Michael Evans' Inventing Eleanor is a good read that looks at what we think we know about her vs the reality. Sara Cockerill's recent biography is also excellent and if you like historical fiction then Elizabeth Chadwick's Eleanor trilogy is worth reading.

You asked a frankly ridiculous question and get butthurt when it is pointed out to you.

Typical mumsnet response

I always feel so sorry for Katherine Howard whenever she drops up.

Crops 🙄

Yes, basically used and abused from childhood.

I'm confused. At school we learned "divorced beheaded died, divorced beheaded survived." Are you saying they lied to us through song?

No question is ridiculous.

Wrong. Not offended. Simply pointing out how rude you're being coming onto a thread with nothing to add. Except an insult to OP.