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The royal family
Original poster

Is Camilla the first previously divorced Queen?

93 replies

Munchies7 · 08/04/2023 17:17

I recall from the time of Charles and Camilla's wedding that we were told she would be Queen Consort and not Queen. I believe this was a way of appeasing the people who were displeased at the way Charles treated Diana. I'm wondering if Camilla is the first divorced Queen.

Which monarch changed [something] to allow divorce?

OP posts:
TremulousD · 09/04/2023 16:03

BabaBooPuffinsRock · 09/04/2023 15:54

I'm confused. At school we learned "divorced beheaded died, divorced beheaded survived." Are you saying they lied to us through song?

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Yes.

Annulled
Murdered
Died
Annulled
Murdered
Survived

titchy · 09/04/2023 16:22

Isn't the more interesting question whether Charles is the first King to have been divorced? Why focus on the Queen (consort)?

ArnoldBee · 09/04/2023 16:27

Now if we go by Boris Johnson's example she was never previously married as it was a Catholic wedding to Andrew.

RiktheButler · 09/04/2023 16:27

Munchies7 · 09/04/2023 16:03

No question is ridiculous.

Wrong. Not offended. Simply pointing out how rude you're being coming onto a thread with nothing to add. Except an insult to OP.

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Your question is clearly ridiculous as it demonstrates an embarrassing lack of knowledge. Henry VIII and his marriages are a HUGE part of English history. I can't imagine how you appear to not know anything about it.

I'm sure you'll reply yet again and infer that it is my "rudeness" rather than your education that's at fault, but I won't bother reading it

SnottyLottie · 09/04/2023 16:32

KillingMeDeftly · 09/04/2023 15:51

Yes, basically used and abused from childhood.

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If you haven’t already read it I highly recommend Gareth Russell’s biography her ‘Young, Fair & Damned: The Life of Katherine Howard’. It explores her life from a modern perspective and talks about how in modern times we would have said Katherine had been groomed and was a victim of the men at court (yet it still very
mindful about the difficulties and dangers of pushing a modern narrative on to historical characters).

MamaNewtNewt · 09/04/2023 16:34

@RiktheButler is there any need to be such a condescending arse? Just because you know something doesn't mean everyone else does. Everyone has areas that they are an expert on and other areas they don't know so much about.

CaptainCorellisBagpipes · 09/04/2023 16:36

KillingMeDeftly · 08/04/2023 20:02

I think the way it was spun was that Letizia's first marriage was only a civil ceremony and therefore she was free to marry Felipe in a church?

This is not correct.

The Catholic Church recognises all marriages whether they be Civil or religious..

So an Annulment would have had to occur before they could be married in a Catholic ceremony.

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 16:37

Annulment is Catholic whitewash for divorce.

CaptainCorellisBagpipes · 09/04/2023 16:40

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 16:37

Annulment is Catholic whitewash for divorce.

That is incorrect.

A declaration of nullity issued by a Catholic church marriage tribunal is affirming that what appeared to be a true marriage lacked one or more necessary conditions for a true marriage and is therefore invalid and never existed according to the Catholic Church.

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 16:41

Like I said. Catholic whitewash for divorce.

KillingMeDeftly · 09/04/2023 16:43

titchy · 09/04/2023 16:22

Isn't the more interesting question whether Charles is the first King to have been divorced? Why focus on the Queen (consort)?

But he isn't the first divorced king.

CaptainCorellisBagpipes · 09/04/2023 17:01

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 16:41

Like I said. Catholic whitewash for divorce.

As I said, you are mistaken.

While a divorce ends a legal marriage, an annulment has a different role for a sacramental marriage. An annulment is a decision saying that what was believed to be a valid sacramental, Catholic marriage is declared by the Church to have never been a marriage in the first place.

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 17:30

🙄😂

CaptainCorellisBagpipes · 09/04/2023 17:46

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 17:30

🙄😂

I don't understand your post?

I have explained (as best I can) the Catholic Church's position on this. I can't actually see any laughs in that?

Serenster · 09/04/2023 17:55

titchy · 09/04/2023 16:22

Isn't the more interesting question whether Charles is the first King to have been divorced? Why focus on the Queen (consort)?

Because Charles’ former wife has died, this makes his position different to Camilla’s (in the eyes of the Church of England) as her former husband is still alive.

There have been other Kings in sticky marital situations. George VI was secretly married to a Maria Fitzherbert while his father George III was still alive - a problem, because she was Catholic and the marriage would have meant he was removed from the line of succession. Luckily for George, the marriage was deemed legally invalid because he needed his father’s permission to marry, and didn’t have it. He went on to formally marry Princess Charlotte of Brunswick, a German Protestant Princess. They absolutely loathed each other, and separated after their daughter Charlotte was born.

They didn’t divorce however, and so at his coronation Charlotte turned up to insist on being crowned as his Queen Consort. He had the doors of Westminster Abbey barred in her face to prevent her entering!

Serenster · 09/04/2023 18:00

(D’oh sorry - it was Caroline of Brunswick that George IV married. His mother and his daughter were both Charlotte, but not his wife!)

Original poster
Munchies7 · 09/04/2023 18:51

RiktheButler · 09/04/2023 16:27

Your question is clearly ridiculous as it demonstrates an embarrassing lack of knowledge. Henry VIII and his marriages are a HUGE part of English history. I can't imagine how you appear to not know anything about it.

I'm sure you'll reply yet again and infer that it is my "rudeness" rather than your education that's at fault, but I won't bother reading it

Show quote history

Yay, I won against the bully, good times!

OP posts:
Original poster
Munchies7 · 09/04/2023 18:56

titchy · 09/04/2023 16:22

Isn't the more interesting question whether Charles is the first King to have been divorced? Why focus on the Queen (consort)?

Yes, possibly. I was thinking back to when C&C married and why (except Diana reasons) the people were against C being Queen eventually. And then if it was unusual for a divorcee to marry a monarch.

OP posts:
KillingMeDeftly · 09/04/2023 19:12

I was thinking of George I who was divorced.

Quartz2208 · 09/04/2023 19:15

There are 2 questions to be fair and Henry VIII is only relevant to the second - plus although Henry VIII did annul his marriage divorce is a much more modern concept. Plus it is the consort who is divorced which even in the 1930s was seen as not allowed (the very reason Charles is King is because Edward VIII wanted to marry a divorcee).

Divorce in this sense only really started in 1857 (in the way we view it now) and I think it is 1973 where it was changed to really encapsulate what we see now.

so in that sense yes she is the first divorcee.

she isn’t the first consort to have been married before

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 20:15

Charles is divorced no?

KillingMeDeftly · 09/04/2023 20:28

Yes but it's kind of a moot point as Diana died long before he married Camilla.

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 20:31

No it’s not moot. He’s divorced.

Serenster · 09/04/2023 21:07

No it’s not moot. He’s divorced.

The death of his former wife did make a difference. The Matrimonial Causes Act stated that no member of the clergy should feel compelled to solemnise the marriage of “any person whose former marriage has been dissolved and whose former spouse is still living" - so after Diana’s death Charles was entitled to be remarried in a church.

The point that are it moot is that he wanted to marry Camilla - also divorced, and whose former spouse was still alive.

UrsulaPandress · 09/04/2023 21:11

Thank goodness his former wife died then.

🙄