Adultery, the Church of England and the Coronation of Charles & Camilla

[Inspectamus]

Discussed as a thread on Gransnet, but not on Mumsnet. What does Mumsnet think?

"The Church of England has never crowned a divorced man as King, let alone one who has publicly confessed to adultery – with the relevant woman expecting to be crowned Queen Consort," Holden writes.

I think that in these corona-virus and coronation times the Church of England should not be taking liberties with God’s Ten Commandments. But they’re doing it anyway, without explaining to the people and the world how they’re reconciling the conflict in what they preach and their new King & Queen’s actions.

How can Charles and Camilla view their adultery as a mistake if it was the means to achieve what they desired?
This, in my view, sets a bad example as Supreme Governors of the Church of England’s Christian faith and as defenders of the faith.

I’m having a crisis of faith, as it happens. For me, Charles and Camilla’s religious coronation will be evidence that the God behind the Ten Commandments cannot exist.

I thought Jesus came for the sinners? To save us from ourselves. Humans are fallible & we sin. I think Charles & Camilla should be allowed to marry in church. Times have moved on & hopefully we are more enlightened.

True Christians imo believe in forgiveness. You don’t believe in forgiveness then you are not a true Christian IMO.

The objection re Charles and Camilla being crowned and Charles anointed as head of the church has nothing to do with forgiveness.

Though it is hilarious to read Christians shouting each other down about not being forgiving enough lol

The point is the fact that the COE is simply doing as they are told by the new king . Man's authority and all that

But that the COE is at the service of whoever's behind is on the gold chair is not news to anyone . It's funny though . Charles couldn't be married be church and his own mother wouldn't attend the civil marriage and now he's the head of said church ! Hilarious
Not hilarious is you are a sincere COE believer I suspect

I agree with you. You put it better than I did

What a load of horseshit.

The founder of CoE killed several of his wives. Religious institutions are a power structure just like any other manmade power structure.

Plenty of people have faith and believe in forgiveness. If you think every Christian also worships an institution you aren’t particularly astute.

You only want point and roll your eyes at the parts that suit your tiresome agenda. I’m certain you had no issue with Harry marrying a divorced woman (who had a live-in boyfriend when they met) in the church, or in his back garden or wherever their truth says their “real marriage between them happened.”

Zero respect for someone mocking the faith of others.

If you'd read my post properly you'll see I had no issue with the 'we are all sinners' argument
It's the fact that Mr Windsor becomes head of a religious organisation due to order of birth and with no regard to his suitability!

Or are you saying that the Archbishops son also automatically becomes archbishop and I've completely misunderstood?

And when William becomes head of church he has no interest in - the shit will really hit the fan

I’m saying it’s all obviously ridiculous anyway. So acting like it’s only become ridiculous now is nonsense.

The only reason you are crowing about it now is that you hate Harry’s father, simply because Harry is at odds with him now. It’s like you chose a football team and now worship them and badmouth anyone playing against them.

Are you new here ?

I've been anti 'royals' for a long time

🕰️

So YOU are calling the COE ridiculous now ?

Your argument is v unclear

I do think all religious institutions are ridiculous in ways. They were built by men to consolidate power and control the masses. I don’t mean I think Christianity or any other faith is ridiculous. And I do think the institutions have ample benefits and serve a purpose, even usually doing more good than bad. But don’t have to look too far behind the curtain to see contradictions and flaws. I believe the nature of men is flawed, so anything they run will be flawed. I still hope for the best. I do believe in forgiveness and redemption, too.

But complaining that the latest head of CoE has been divorced is a hoot, given the purpose and history of it’s founding. Heck, divorce should be a requirement.

@AliceOlive Why can't atheists call themselves atheists if that's what they are? If someone called all Christians smug you'd be up in Arms.

No, I wouldn’t. It is smug to go around announcing you are a Christian. Have you ever met someone that does that?!

They are pompous and self-righteous on both sides.

And announcing atheism is even odder. It’s defining oneself by the belief system of others. I don’t run, but don’t go around saying I’m a non-runner. (Which is funny, because running seems to be a religion in itself.)

Never once met someone that says they are atheist, unbidden, that respects other’s beliefs. And I have plenty of friends that do this, they absolutely love to announce it. They definitely think my faith and beliefs are stupid. (Though I can see it confuses them because they generally respect my intelligence.) It’s fine, I don’t care and we just avoid the topic. All have somehow been harmed by an institution and it’s easy enough to identify the root of their disdain. I feel compassion for them. They aren’t bad people but absolutely obnoxious with regard to this topic.

I know people who are openly Christian yes. I don't see what's wrong about saying you are a Christian or an atheist when having a discussion about, say, God and the church of England. And if you think atheists are so smug and arrogant and whatever else you said in your incredibly insulting now deleted post, why be "friends" with them? You clearly don't respect them.

I don’t know what was in the one post that got deleted. You are misunderstanding me completely.

Oh well. Can’t be bothered.

I agree simple scripture is not easy to understand. Forgiveness has a number of meanings in the Bible.

Forgiveness requires us to turn away from a life of sin and towards Jesus and God. It requires repentance on our part.

Forgiveness is also understood as God's promise not to count our sins against us. So as long as you accept Jesus and God into your life you can still enter Heaven.

Refusing to forgive others is a sin. If we receive forgiveness from God we must extend that forgiveness to others. We must not hold a grudge or seek revenge. That does not mean we must forget the offence.

This whole subject is the kind of issue that would lead to a long discussion in a Bible study group. It is far more complex than the atheist view of you are a Christian so you must forgive this person usually with the implicit meaning that you must forget their sin. If we took that atheist view we would forgive and forget what paedophiles do. But that is obviously madness and a clear recipe to enable the abuse of children.

So with Charles and Camilla we must forgive their adultery, but we do not have to forget their adultery. And knowing that they were adulterous brings into question Charles role as head of the church. If Charles was truly repentant and sought members of the church forgiveness, then there is an argument that members would have to accept that and allow him to be head of the church.

@OutForBreakfast a fascinating topic; forgiveness and redemption.

Some believe that since Christ died for our sins, we are all simply forgiven without deserving it.

Henry the 8th set up COE, the guy that beheaded and divorced his way through multiple women. Plus he married his brothers widow. Charles still has a way to go before catching up with that. So it’s v unlikely he will combust into flames on the day.

Oops I laughed like a drain at Life of Brian but when it was released Guildford Council banned it so I had to take the train to Woking and watch it there. This was a brilliant debate of both sides with Malcolm Muggerige and the Bishop of Southwark debating with Michael Palin and John Cleese.

If Charles was truly repentant and sought members of the church forgiveness

Human forgiveness is beside the point. The church of which he is now the head preaches that God’s forgiveness is what matters. He’s been in a monogamous marriage in which he’s kept his marriage vows for almost 18 years now. Much longer than he was married to his first wife.

Yes if he accepts God and Jesus into his heart and repents his sins God will forgive his sins and accept him into heaven. That is not the same as saying his actions on earth do not matter.

A marriage is beside the point. He is not even married in the eyes of God to Camilla.

Probably not one for a sermon at the Coronation (assuming there is one).

www.oremus.org/liturgy/coronation/cor1953b.html

What Jesus Taught about Marriage and Divorce

19 When Jesus had finished talking, He went from the country of Galilee. He came to the part of the country of Judea which is on the other side of the Jordan River. 2 Many people followed Him and He healed them there.

3 The proud religious law-keepers came to Jesus. They tried to trap Him by saying, “Does the Law say a man can divorce his wife for any reason?” 4 He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together.”

7 The proud religious law-keepers said to Jesus, “Then why did the Law of Moses allow a man to divorce his wife if he put it down in writing and gave it to her?” 8 Jesus said to them, “Because of your hard hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. It was not like that from the beginning. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sex sins, and marries another, is guilty of sex sins in marriage. Whoever marries her that is divorced is guilty of sex sins in marriage.”

10 His followers said to Him, “If that is the way of a man with his wife, it is better not to be married.” 11 But Jesus said to them, “Not all men are able to do this, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are some men who from birth will never be able to have children. There are some men who have been made so by men. There are some men who have had themselves made that way because of the holy nation of heaven. The one who is able to do this, let him do it.”

Your god killed millions across the world as an advance punishment for when Charles takes the throne? You need a new God.

Omg OPs god has Ben punishing people since the 60s for Charles taking the frown in 2023????, 😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲