Adultery, the Church of England and the Coronation of Charles & Camilla

[Inspectamus]

Discussed as a thread on Gransnet, but not on Mumsnet. What does Mumsnet think?

"The Church of England has never crowned a divorced man as King, let alone one who has publicly confessed to adultery – with the relevant woman expecting to be crowned Queen Consort," Holden writes.

I think that in these corona-virus and coronation times the Church of England should not be taking liberties with God’s Ten Commandments. But they’re doing it anyway, without explaining to the people and the world how they’re reconciling the conflict in what they preach and their new King & Queen’s actions.

How can Charles and Camilla view their adultery as a mistake if it was the means to achieve what they desired?
This, in my view, sets a bad example as Supreme Governors of the Church of England’s Christian faith and as defenders of the faith.

I’m having a crisis of faith, as it happens. For me, Charles and Camilla’s religious coronation will be evidence that the God behind the Ten Commandments cannot exist.

You were doing well until you called Welby an idiot. I was and still am a huge fan of Rowan Williams, probably the greatest Archbishop of my lifetime and a truly spiritual man. Justin may one happy clappy and evangelical and not to my taste, but he is certainly not an idiot.

Charles as a grown adult man and heir to the throne knowingly and wilfully entered into carnal relations with another married woman on multiple occasions whilst being lawfully married to another. The fact he did it before assuming the throne is immaterial. The late Queen didn't attend the marriage ceremony for good reason. Camilla would have been well advised not to push the removal of 'Consort' nor push her way unnecessarily into the Coronation given that fact but push she appears to be doing.

Here endeth the Second Lesson.

vera99 · Today 08:24
You were doing well until you called Welby an idiot. I was and still am a huge fan of Rowan Williams, probably the greatest Archbishop of my lifetime and a truly spiritual man. Justin may one happy clappy and evangelical and not to my taste, but he is certainly not an idiot.

Perhaps I was a bit dismissive about Welby. It's not unusual for a middle-aged man to be taken in by a beautiful young woman who is also a talented actress. And coming after Rowan Williams - a "hard act to follow". I can feel some sympathy for him. But not much

We are finding common ground, which is the aim of us all in the pursuit of faith. Quite a sly dig at poor old Justin though.... I am sure he is of noble mind and thought...

Yet you don't preach forgiveness for Harry writing his book about his family

Forgiveness by whom?

Me? He hasn't hurt me, he has provided a lot of entertainment, I have nothing to forgive.

By his family? I am sure there have been faults on both sides and hurt on both sides - including publication of some very personal details about other people in Harry's book. I hope both sides can, in time, begin to recognise what they have contributed to the breakdown of relationships, repent of that, and begin to make amends and ultimately forgive each other. I doubt that will happen while Harry is clinging to his victim narrative.

By God? Well, if Harry repents of his sins then God will forgive him. Publishing a memoir isn't a sin, hurting others with what you include in a memoir is, in my opinion. But that's God's decision, not mine.

So your real gripe against KC is due to how you feel about Harry? Never saw that coming.

Apples to Apples: I suggested we not judge Meghan for having been married before and that her being allowed to marry in CoE despite this was entirely appropriate.

I also strongly suspect that KC loves Harry unconditionally and will forgive him repeatedly.

Forgiveness is not the same as bowing down to blackmail, though. So Harry is not going to get the apology, the money, the appointment to rule the commonwealth countries. He won’t be given the opportunity to gather more fodder from his family for his “twist-all” books and reality programs. But he’ll be welcomed home with open arms.

Perhaps I was a bit dismissive about Welby. It's not unusual for a middle-aged man to be taken in by a beautiful young woman who is also a talented actress

Clearly not unusual for one to be fooled by a convicted paedophile either, and Welby features once again: www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/child-rapist-vicar-protected-church-19498559

Of course, "fooled by" is taking the generous view; as with Charles and his own support/enablement of paedophiles, other interpretations are available and we'll almost certainly never know the full truth - mainly because the culture of secrecy suits both the church and the monarchy rather well

The Church of England is probably ahead of the curve in seeking to understand and attempt to atone for their past sins of neglect of the abused and not recognising the evil within their own ranks. It is also ahead of the curve in terms of female ordination and a Church that however imperfect tries to relieve the suffering of the people where they can in an imperfect world and I say that as a Buddhist and none churchgoer though baptized as one and spent 11 years at Sunday school seeking to understand the nature of Christianity. They create local communities of care, hope and engagement in a non-dogmatic, inclusive way that are open to any and all who wish to seek them out.

It was known in the past as the Tory party at prayer, but I don't think now anyone could accuse them of that. That said, it is long overdue to break the link between church and state and remove the monarch as the head. If anyone was to come to me and ask what should I believe and who should follow, I would in the first instance say yourself and if that is too difficult then seek out your local vicar.

“Truth makes love possible; love makes truth bearable.”
― Archbishop Rowan Williams

@AliceOlive
There is a lot of hypocritical nonsense on this thread about 'forgiveness ' ( clue: if you are a 'working ' 'royal' - do what you want the royalists don't care)

The issue is not that Charles has re married .
Although Betty wouldn't attend C and C civil ceremony and now Charlie is head of the same church - you'd need to be royalist to accept that twisted logic.

The fact is we all know what Camilla and Charles did to Diana .

We have seen the photos of Camilla with the young Diana - appearing to befriend her while we all now know they were laughing at her . We know when Diana left her martial home on a Monday Camilla was round before the sheets were cold .

All the revisionist talk of 'kings' always having mistresses ( yet they deny Philip's affairs - hmm) is again irrelevant . Former populations did not have visual and audio evidence and that makes a huge difference .

So when Camilla and Charles are crowned and anointed with holy oils all those images will also be present

It's very damaging to the monarchy and the COE

I can't quite believe how inept their PR is .
But I suppose when you are a peevish 75 year old man child you are easily manipulated .

Former populations did not have visual and audio evidence and that makes a huge difference .
I can't quite believe how inept their PR is .

So your issue is how things are seen? It was OK when it was secret, and the problem with Charles being crowned is because it became known? NOt because it was moral/immoral whether known about or not?

How odd.

Spot on and wonderfully put. There is a petition going around for anyone interested.

actionstorm.org/petitions/notmyking

@mixedrecycling

I'll repeat it for you as you have completely missed the point

It has little to do with 'morality' - I mean it is the 'royals ' we are talking about here . Andrew will be right there .

No, the point is that we all have the photos of Camilla working on Diana , pretending to befriend her , while we also know the horrible truth of how cruelly Charles and Camilla treated her . Visuals and audio are imprinted on the collective consciousness . Unfortunately the PR brian washing hasn't worked . We also have the recent image of Camilla laughing it up at her lunch with Clarkson et al. Then the disgusting article about Meghan
All these associations were not present at the last con- a-nation ( no I won't stop calling it that because I've rarely seen something so apt)

So we will have Camilla on her throne , being anointed alongside Charles ( he being head of the COE).
This dichotomy is what is so damaging to both institutions.

It is all a result of having a ridiculous monarchy in 2023
Their 'pomp' will be their downfall now

I suspect the sudden trashing of 'protocol' to have Camilla's grandchildren hold the canopy ( it is all so ridiculous) has something to do with distraction too.
"Don't think about me sneaking around with Charles and destroying their marriage - I'm a kindly old grandmother .
Nothing to see here !"

Sadly seem to lacking in canopy holders for some folk.

I suppose it means the guff is there - plain as eggs - for all to see.

Nothing at all kindly about them either.

Novella4 · Today 12:12
No, the point is that we all have the photos of Camilla working on Diana , pretending to befriend her , while we also know the horrible truth of how cruelly Charles and Camilla treated her .

Don't be ridiculous! There are photographs of Camilla talking to Diana. Did yours have sound?

I wonder how cruelly the wives of Baz and Billy felt treated.

@BadgerB Don't be so ridiculous FACT C & C were having an affair all through the marriage of C & D whether that was physical or emotional. I don't know why some are trying to rewrite history by pretending none of that happened. I for one can't forget the way Diana was manipulated and treated by the royal family and I'm sure that some of that is probably driving Harry in the way he has gone about things. Don't forget they were both young boys when their mother died. Whereas Harry may not be able to forgive things that have happened it maybe different for William who would have a lot more to lose if he didn't stay on the right side of Charles given that he is next in line and that maybe more important to him than what happened to his mother.

Don't be so ridiculous FACT C & C were having an affair all through the marriage of C & D
Putting FACT in Caps doesn't make it true. Charles said the affair started when the marriage had obviously broken down. Yes, he might have been lying - or not.

Whereas Harry may not be able to forgive things that have happened it maybe different for William who would have a lot more to lose.
Or maybe William, as an adult with children of his own, has managed to get over it, and get on with his life. Harry is stuck in "mummy-land"

Diana could be a nightmare. That's why there were rumours of the RF "murdering" her

Talking of mummy land, there was chatter that Charles found Camilla more alluring as she reminded him of her nanny rather than the beautiful young Diana. They are all a therapist's long term revenue dream.

Charles' nanny, who was sacked by the Queen over a row about a pudding.

www.geo.tv/latest/310329-a-nanny-who-threatened-the-queens-ultimate-authority-fired-overnight