Palace courtier controlling Queen?

[Bugeyedowl]

Did anyone find the part in the book where Harry tries to talk to the Queen on the phone a bit sinister?

He says her voice sounded 'strange' and she said she suddenly wasn't available to see him despite telling him earlier that she was. Apparently "that was what Bee told her". Then he asks her "is he there in the room with you?" She doesn't reply.

Was the Queen being shifty or was Bee telling her what to say? What was going on there? Was the Bee controlling the Queen? It seems the Palace courtiers have a lot of control over the family... Why/how would they have so much power over actual royals? Sounds almost like a hostage situation!

This was 2½ years before she died. She gave that fabulous, we'll meet again covid speech. Philip was still alive and she was still very mobile. She was doing zoom calls. Even in the few months before she died, she was still having people come stay for days at a time and they all said she was very bright and with it.
She knew how to use a phone. She had Harry's phone number. If she'd wanted to speak to him, she was perfectly capable of ringing him whenever she liked - even if that meant locking herself in the bathroom to avoid the spies!!🙄

It seems to me that Harry placed a bubble of innocence around the Queen. In his mind, she was not responsible in the slightest for any of the decisions which impacted him negatively. He had to believe that in order for his chosen worldview to survive.

Similarly, Meghan has placed a bubble of innocence around Harry.
He has nothing to do with any of the bad things that happened to her during her time within the institution - his own behaviour was exemplary.

However, to some of us on the outside looking in, it all looks rather different.

Or maybe the Queen was badgered by Prince Petulant to agree to a meeting. Then decided fuck it, I can not stand to listen to anymore self serving whinging over my marmalade sandwiches. So she employed a lie he would believe, that the grey suits had stepped in. She was sharp as a tack HMQ.

I think this is the most likely.

She agreed to see him assuming it was all in hand, is then advised that nope, it’s all still up in the air and not going well so she backs out not wanting to get involved.

Its like a junior member of staff wanting something and asking the CEO, and the CEO saying you need to discuss it with your line manager, but you don’t want to to do that (because you know they’ll say no) so try and schedule a meeting with the CEO anyway!

I think the Queen had effectively delegated the issue to Charles, as part of the managed long term slow transition - she’s not stupid. Charles was being involved more and more, as any organisation will aim for a smooth transition. Of course they wouldn’t know for sure when that transition would occur, but nevertheless there were things they could and were doing to gently begin that process where appropriate.

Long term plans about the shape of the monarchy would absolutely have fit into that bracket of issues she might have felt it more appropriate for Charles to lead on. She’d get the finaL say, but since it wouldn’t be her living with the long term effects it makes sense for Charles to do the negotiations and detail.

Harry tried to go over Charle’s head and was thwarted that’s all.

I agree @Rinoachicken . And someone who has been CEO for a very long time is quick to pick up on that kind of sidestepping. The queen really never put a foot wrong during her long reign and that doesn't happen by accident.

HMQ was with it right to the end. But I also think she was deligating issues to Charles and possibly William.

I did have to laugh during the Oprah interview when Harry kept blaming the Palace and RF for stuff. Effectively he was moaning about his Dad and Brother.

HMQ and Charles knew the issues when Royals try to trade of the name Sophie had a go at it, and if I remember rightly so did Fergie. Not a chance were they ever going to agree to a half in / half out deal.
Harry was nieve to even think it was possible. He thought he'd call their bluff but they weren't bluffing. Hence they left the door open for 12mths.

Seeing as there are 437 days in January, we have all needed a laugh in the office this afternoon. And this thread has done it. I’ve been showing everyone, it’s went down a storm.

So thank you OP (and some mothers). It’s been very much appreciated over here.

Its like a junior member of staff wanting something and asking the CEO, and the CEO saying you need to discuss it with your line manager, but you don’t want to to do that (because you know they’ll say no) so try and schedule a meeting with the CEO anyway!

True! Typical millenial 🙄

Harry tried to go over Charle’s head and was thwarted that’s all.

Agree. Plus HMQ may well have been conscious of not interfering directly between father and son

Why do people keep saying H was favourite GC.

I alway's thought it was Edwards 2 that were fav's as they spent alot more time with her and the Duke

The newspapers keep changing their mind on who was the favourite - I think it was a reporter who claimed that Harry himself said he was her favourite - was probably a joke he said to someone once.

The other favourites have been Peter - as he was the first grandchild. And the Wessex two because they saw the most of them as they were growing up near Windsor.

Lousie might have been Philip's favourite because she took on his carriage sport.

Harry could not accept that the Queen had told him 'No', he could not be half in and half out.
Therefore, it is easier for him to blame a member of staff, etc.
Everyone has said, the Queen made the decisions, but maybe she wanted some backup, so that Harry could not misrepresent what she said, etc.

Does anyone actually believe the Queen or Philip had a favourite, or divulged that info other than their favourite daughter?.

Completely agree - of course courtiers will be trying to influence things in their favour, as people do in any job. Yes Minister is a good comparison.

Wolf Hall is also a good comparison! Henry VIII was just as strong a personality as QE2, and no idiot, but that didn’t mean his courtiers weren’t working in their own interests at the same time.

@Roussette
"The Palace also may champion diversity (yes really) but every single Private Secretary have been white men. No POC, no women."
Charles has had several black and female members of staff, though I do not think a private secretary as such.

@Changechangychange Henry VIIIs Court was also in my mind! Elizabeth and Edwards too as good examples. The different was of course thar the court & government were one then.

As the Queen herself said, recollections may vary.

The courtiers, or Palace spokespersons, are powerful and also lying, self interested buggers. Yes, they do the Royals' bidding, but also leak information to suit their own ends. The UK (largely) loved the Sussexes, then they did an overseas tour in Australia and one in South Africa and were so popular, Harry even voted No 1 in favourite Royals list. This sent an Exocet through the Royal Family, could not be allowed, so steps were taken to leak unfavorable stories about Meghan. The problem with Meghan is that she was a successful career woman, had volunteered since childhood and could speak articulately, off the cuff - all so different to the Princess of Wales. The RF was shortsighted and cruel, had to protect the Wales' and trash the Sussexes. Had the Sussexes been supported they could have taken on the mantle of Commonwealth envoys, Harry loved Africa from a young age and spent months there every year. The RF failed to recognise this and threw Meghan to the wolves, allowing lies to be told about her, and racist diatribes to go unchallenged. Had they supported this fledgling family we would not be in the current situation. Instead we've got Edward and Sophie pushed forward, 2 most anodyne and boring individuals. Harry did 10 years in the Army, Edward lasted 9 weeks. Physical fights between young brothers are not unusual, but the Prince of Wales assaulting his brother, really, wtaf. The RF will regret their actions, they have been cold, unsupportive and have opened the doors to a greater understanding of how they try to manipulate the media but actually get manipulated by the media. They supped with the devil and the floodgates are open. Wait for more leaks about William's roving eye, about Kate's unhappiness, about Camilla's leaks via her friends (Clarkson, really!) to newspapers. The RF is the stain on decent & honourable people.

The RF failed to recognise this and threw Meghan to the wolves, allowing lies to be told about her, and racist diatribes to go unchallenged

Well.... yes.

If only the British RF could've done what the King of Norway did, when his daughter got engaged to black Durek Verrett. He put out a statement as follows...

“We are very pleased that The Princess has gotten engaged and want Durek Verrett to feel welcome in our family,” King Harald said.
The monarch added that “the situation we as a family have faced recently has highlighted issues that are complex and that have many different aspects that we seek to take into account.”
King Harald said: “We are also concerned about being able to live well together, despite inequality. The racist attitudes Durek Verrett has been subjected to, especially on social media, we strongly oppose. It is a strength that the Royal Family reflects the ethnic diversity that exists in Norway.
“It can be difficult to understand how direct or indirect, conscious or unconscious racism can be experienced, for those of us who are not in it ourselves. Unfortunately, there are many in Norway today who experience discrimination and racism.
“We must work together to put an end to this.”

Meghan always struck me as always acting and rather false, and a bit full of herself with the word salad and all. She may be a lovely person, I don't know. But whether she is or not, no one deserves the racist rubbish that has been aimed in her direction. I didn't know about the letter of support from parliamentarians, so it was clearly a lot worse than I ever knew. Whilst I agree that a statement like the Norwegians' might have been good, dunno that it would have stopped the online abuse. Maybe the palace thought she'd be better to grin and bear it, get on with good works and wait for it to blow over. There's not much you can do to stop anonymous racist abuse, is there?

Meghan always struck me as always acting and rather false, and a bit full of herself with the word salad and all.

I thibk that's the nub of it for many. People aren't used to royals having an air of Hollywood about them. She was always hyperaware of the camera, as you would be with her background but to the British used to frumpy or shy royals, it came across as being disingenuous.

Personally I think she's lovely, but with an edge. Most people are like that so I don't think she's either a saint or the devil incarnate, just human!

The UK (largely) loved the Sussexes, then they did an overseas tour in Australia and one in South Africa and were so popular, Harry even voted No 1 in favourite Royals list. This sent an Exocet through the Royal Family, could not be allowed, so steps were taken to leak unfavorable stories about Meghan. The problem with Meghan is that she was a successful career woman, had volunteered since childhood and could speak articulately, off the cuff - all so different to the Princess of Wales. The RF was shortsighted and cruel, had to protect the Wales' and trash the Sussexes. Had the Sussexes been supported they could have taken on the mantle of Commonwealth envoys, Harry loved Africa from a young age and spent months there every year. The RF failed to recognise this and threw Meghan to the wolves, allowing lies to be told about her, and racist diatribes to go unchallenged. Had they supported this fledgling family we would not be in the current situation.

Totally agree with this. This whole mess is the Royal family's fault in the first place. Harry wears his heart on his sleeve and he's an outspoken chap, he was never, ever going to stay quiet about this - they should have known him better but their petty, insecure jealousies ruined it all.

The RF will regret their actions, they have been cold, unsupportive and have opened the doors to a greater understanding of how they try to manipulate the media but actually get manipulated by the media

Which I'm sure they never wanted revealed!

Lol lol lol lol! Meghan is a very proficient public speaker, absolutely. However the rest of the above is pure tripe. Why on earth would the RF want to bring harry and Meghan down? Don’t say jealousy, please…. Charles is not a stupid man, he knows he isn’t overwhelmingly popular, he knows camilla will always be the OW to many people. Harry and Meghan were a gift to the royal family, they made them seem modern. If anything that’s why Meghan was given a pass on so many things that were massive red flags. Volunteered since childhood is honestly delusional. Meghan’s only interest in philanthropy has been shown to be in the development of her own career by using good causes as a springboard, which is a v well known tactic. If anything the bullying scandal and suppressed report showed how MUCH the RF have swept under the carpet for H and M. Harry has worn a nazi band on his sleeve as well as his ‘heart’, should the RF have praised that too? I don’t understand how all the people who go on about the RF being like a business fail to say H and M were way down the pecking order, not even middle management. That’s the issue here, they thought they should be running the show and brooked no criticism. They are a toxic combination. I don’t think there is any way this relationship could have played out that Harry’s relationship with his family wouldn’t have been blown up.

Well, duh, you're just repeating what Harry has said. Maybe you can go one step further and tell us what these unfavourable stories were, who leaked them and how they made other RF members more popular and visible in the newspapers?

No, neither of them are the type to have divulged it directly.

Louise and James are much, much younger than the rest of their cousins. They will have inevitably had a different relationship with their grandparents, than the 6 older cousins. They probably did see Elizabeth and Philip more often than the others did at the same age because there were fewer foreign trips at this stage and they all lived very near each other.

I suspect there wasn't a permanent favourite, but they were closer to different grandchildren at different times.