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Original poster

Palace courtier controlling Queen?

116 replies

Bugeyedowl · 18/01/2023 13:14

Did anyone find the part in the book where Harry tries to talk to the Queen on the phone a bit sinister?

He says her voice sounded 'strange' and she said she suddenly wasn't available to see him despite telling him earlier that she was. Apparently "that was what Bee told her". Then he asks her "is he there in the room with you?" She doesn't reply.

Was the Queen being shifty or was Bee telling her what to say? What was going on there? Was the Bee controlling the Queen? It seems the Palace courtiers have a lot of control over the family... Why/how would they have so much power over actual royals? Sounds almost like a hostage situation!Confused

OP posts:
smilesy · 18/01/2023 13:41

babsanderson · 18/01/2023 13:34

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain She stood up for a photo and to greet someone. She had obviously had an IV of some kind removed and looked very frail.

But Harry isn’t just talking bout the end of her life, is he? He’s talking about the times when he was still in the UK as well. So her being frail two days before she died is not relevant

PrinceHaz · 18/01/2023 13:45

I expect there’s something in what he says. She was 96 so possibly won’t have been operating as independently as she had previously, and her family loyalty had to be balanced with any concerns courtiers had.

Georgeskitchen · 18/01/2023 13:46

It would take someone with balls of steel to try and control The Queen.
She was the master of the icy glare when "one was not amused"

Aspiringmatriarch · 18/01/2023 13:51

I think she was probably just being tactful. No doubt she was advised against the meeting but I wouldn't say controlled.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 18/01/2023 13:51

Georgeskitchen · 18/01/2023 13:46

It would take someone with balls of steel to try and control The Queen.
She was the master of the icy glare when "one was not amused"

I was just thinking about the 'stare' and wondering who'd be brave enough 😄

Patineur · 18/01/2023 13:58

Good grief. The Queen was more than a match for the likes of Churchill, Wilson, Thatcher, Cameron, Johnson ... do you really think she would have had problems with a courtier? This is more Harry fiction.

notanotheroneagain · 18/01/2023 13:58

In later years, the queen was being lied to and given bad advice. This was after Sir Christopher left and Charles (I guess with Camilla's urging) bumped staff off with his attack dogs. They were all about protecting camilla's PR no matter what. But also promote C&C, while denigrating others.

You do recall that HMQE was the one who asked to see H, and later said she didn't know she was busy.

Palace courtier controlling Queen?
LadyEloise1 · 18/01/2023 13:59

Yesthatismychildsigh · 18/01/2023 13:18

I haven’t read the book, but I’ve thought before that ‘the men in grey suits’ we’re very conveniently blamed for doing the queens (and others) dirty work.

My thoughts too.

Original poster
Bugeyedowl · 18/01/2023 14:00

PrinceHaz · 18/01/2023 13:45

I expect there’s something in what he says. She was 96 so possibly won’t have been operating as independently as she had previously, and her family loyalty had to be balanced with any concerns courtiers had.

94, as this was back in Jan 2020

OP posts:
Patineur · 18/01/2023 14:01

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 18/01/2023 13:22

Perhaps her voice was funny because she was making up an excuse not to see him on the fly and she was trying not to giggle a the suggestions for avoiding it that Bee (presumably her private secretary) was mouthing at her across the room.

Sounds almost like a hostage situation! 🙄

I like it. HM was mouthing at Bee "Shall I tell him to fuck orf?" and Bee was saying "Go on, do it, do it!"

GloomyDarkness · 18/01/2023 14:02

To describe her as feeble and easily controlled and manipulated when all accounts confirm her to be as sharp, capable and steering the ship until her last days.

This.

I found it interesting a few months ago when courtiers said that royals are discouraged from talking to each other directly and instead encouraged to go through their staff, to ensure everything hangs together logistically. Must be a bloody nightmare for family relationships and the potential for every communication to be skewed someway by Palace politics is huge. Harry alludes to this in one of his more astute moment in the book, in fact part of his problem with William seems to be that they swore they'd operate differently but William still goes through his people.

I agree it has a whiff of All sounds very Humprey in Yes Minister to me but perhaps it was also a way of avoiding dog bowl fights and tears that actual conversations between Harry and William descended into.

It's impossible to know if Harry been difficult for a long time and staff were a useful buffer - or if it's a very institutionalizes way of behaving that's getting past down.

But yes miscommunication and additional spin could easily thrive in such a situation.

Patineur · 18/01/2023 14:03

babsanderson · 18/01/2023 13:30

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain I do not know what is true. But by this time the Queen was very elderly, frail and pretty ill.

This was before Harry buggered off to the US, wasn't it, and Philip was around? I don't think she was that frail at that point.

Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 14:04

PrinceHaz · 18/01/2023 13:45

I expect there’s something in what he says. She was 96 so possibly won’t have been operating as independently as she had previously, and her family loyalty had to be balanced with any concerns courtiers had.

But this was 2 - 3 years before she died. Tbf to her she seemed relatively spritely till Phil died and then she seemed to give up the ghost, as with many long married older couples. As others have said harry can’t cope with the idea that Liz didn’t give him what he wanted when he thought she would indulge him like everyone else had. I do think Liz couldn’t be arsed to get in to a personal row and so was easier for her to hand it off to the courtiers. Also think harry is not stupid enough to think that attacking the late queen is a good idea. As with a lot of things harry would rather take it all out on those ‘little people’ and their grubby full time jobs managing the likes of him. Notice his own courtiers are never mentioned and he did have them 🧐

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 18/01/2023 14:05

notanotheroneagain · 18/01/2023 13:58

In later years, the queen was being lied to and given bad advice. This was after Sir Christopher left and Charles (I guess with Camilla's urging) bumped staff off with his attack dogs. They were all about protecting camilla's PR no matter what. But also promote C&C, while denigrating others.

You do recall that HMQE was the one who asked to see H, and later said she didn't know she was busy.

If he came out with anything like that load of blether when they met I'm not surprised she didn't want to see him.

Ohnonevermind · 18/01/2023 14:05

Didn’t Charles say to the Queen that Harry was ringing looking for money. Perhaps the queen didn’t want to get dragged into it

Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 14:06

notanotheroneagain · 18/01/2023 13:58

In later years, the queen was being lied to and given bad advice. This was after Sir Christopher left and Charles (I guess with Camilla's urging) bumped staff off with his attack dogs. They were all about protecting camilla's PR no matter what. But also promote C&C, while denigrating others.

You do recall that HMQE was the one who asked to see H, and later said she didn't know she was busy.

Oh when you put it like that she has clearly been lied to…

KalvinPhillipsBoots · 18/01/2023 14:07

I very much doubt anyone could tell the Queen what to do, I do think however the Palace did make it difficult for Harry to speak to her, knowing how he is behaving I would not want to upset her Majesty any more than she has already been through.

wordler · 18/01/2023 14:08

Re royals not talking to each other and going through staff - that’s probably just the senior royals re making specific plans and trying to co-ordinate their complicated diaries.

Mike Tindall let it slip that the younger royals have a family WhatsApp group chat because he was asking his rugby friends for gossip on Kate’s rugby engagement so he could tease her in the WhatsApp chat.

I wonder if Harry is still in the group chat - probably not, right? Or maybe they quietly made another one without him!

babsanderson · 18/01/2023 14:09

Harry is still friendly with his cousins. Why this urge to paint him as being sidelined by everyone?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 18/01/2023 14:14

KalvinPhillipsBoots · 18/01/2023 14:07

I very much doubt anyone could tell the Queen what to do, I do think however the Palace did make it difficult for Harry to speak to her, knowing how he is behaving I would not want to upset her Majesty any more than she has already been through.

I think that's much more likely and they were protecting, not controlling, a woman in her 90s who has just lost a beloved husband.

Wookiebowl · 18/01/2023 14:14

It's hard work maintaining a monarchy, despite the fact that it may appear effortless ie they just pop up when performing duties there is a lot going on behind the scenes to manage these appearance and the public image- also to protect the members of the family. I don't think it's controlling as much as we know the queen put duty to her country before herself, I suspect if she said yes I'm going to meet with Harry to discuss x she was perhaps advised it was better not to, which for the Royal family would be correct. He didn't bother to attend the last few summer meet ups in which many of the royals have said its a nice break where they can spend time with each other away from the public so I guess they saw through him.

Wookiebowl · 18/01/2023 14:15

If it is true as told anyway i suspect if she was quiet it was more as they thought he might be recording than fear. She was the Queen ffs, he paints her as weak in his book at points when what he really means is the opposite; she didn't grant him the half in and half out he wanted.

babsanderson · 18/01/2023 14:15

Why would Harry attend summer meet ups given some of the family hated him?

And stopping a member of the family visiting another member alone is controlling. It is saying you either see all family together or you see no one. Incredibly controlling.

Backstreetsbackalrightdadada · 18/01/2023 14:16

How come he didn’t just visit her? I thought he had an open invite to balmoral or wherever she was? Wasn’t she just hanging out in Scotland for her last month or two? (On holiday, other than seeing Liz the PM)

Backstreetsbackalrightdadada · 18/01/2023 14:17

Obv don’t know about all the cousins, but I’d be pretty aggrieved if I was Eugenie (think it is) who had back issues and him talking about his matron at school. Also wouldn’t keep anyone close who discloses useless but personal info like Harry has

(I used to be a M and H fan, now think he’s toxic AF)