Has anyone actually met Kate, Pippa or the Middletons?

[Littlepiggyinablanket]

Either before or after William appeared on the scene? Mn is very disparaging about the Middleton's so following on from the has anyone met Meghan thread... Has anyone met the Middleton's or Kate?

Why do you think they are similar to private?

They are state schools established to try to maintain the Irish language which only 2% of the Irish population speak on a daily basis. In ROI there are approx 143 primary Irish language schools. 6% of Irish primary school kids attend gaelscoileanna where teach every subject through Irish. Bear in mind that some of these will be two teacher schools! 3% of Irish secondary schools kids do so in Irish speaking schools. Some believe the teaching is not as good at second level as in English speaking schools. Many state employers require Irish but it is commonly thought of as a 'dead language' which is what the gaelscoileanna are trying to change. Obviously the smaller the school, the fewer facilities and sports it can offer too which is offputting when selecting a secondary school. It is becoming increasingly popular to put an Irish classroom into an English speaking school. The kids can all avail of the facilities and those who wish can learn through irish if they would like to. Kids can start in an Irish school at any stage. I know of one student who did primary and the first year of secondary school in an English speaking school and changed for his final four years of secondary school to an Irish speaking school. He did this because he was having issues in his secondary school and due to the shortage of school places, could not get a place in another school within a reasonable commute. Nevertheless, he is enjoying it but plans to go to a private school for his final two years (for his state exams.)

Irish language schools are not private schools. They are not considered to be like private schools. They are non fee paying. They are especially popular in areas where Irish is the spoken language (obviously) ie The Gaeltacht). Many ie the majority of secondary school kids go to English speaking schools and its is usual for them to spend a couple of weeks in The Gaeltacht during their summer holidays to immerse themselves in the language.

In certain areas, mainly densely populated areas, gaelscoileanna are popular because the majority of kids there will be white Irish. This appeals to some parents. Others simply want their children to speak the language fluently. Outside of Dublin and its commuter area, gaelscoileanna are doing their best to encourage more kids to attend.

I think they may also be non religious in ethos

This isn't the case. They are mostly Catholic and kids are taught religion and prepare for the sacraments during class time as is the case for the majority of state primary schools in Ireland. AFAIK a minimum of 30 mins a day must be spent teaching religion in Irish Catholic schools.

They tend to have very middle class demographics with educated parents etc, definitely attract a certain type

Only in densely populated areas where there is a shortage of school places in decent schools ie Dublin and within its commuter belt. Many gaelscoileanna in less 'desirable' areas can't fill their places nor can many gaelscoileanna outside of Dublin.

The language is sometimes not the primary draw of the school. They are predominantly kids of Irish white people. Homework needs to be done and ideally parents need a level of Irish to help them particularly in their younger years. They are generally smaller schools so they also have few students with additional needs. Again this appeals to some parents.

Any child can apply for a place in these schools. Outside of Dublin they will beg you to apply!

Very often kids with an undesirable local school who are outside the catchment of a school with a good reputation, will apply for gaelscoileanna.

As they struggled to fill their places, historically* they did not have a catchment area. For example, in an area with three schools ie a good primary school, a poor primary school and a gaelsoileanna - the vast majority of parents would choose the good primary school. However if they live outside the catchment, and the choice is now the gaelscoileanna or the poor primary school, they will opt for the gaelscoileanna.

*This may have changed in densely populated areas if there is now more than one gaelscoileanna in the vicinity.

I've found out that you can get eyelash extensions. Not just stick-on false eyelashes, but extensions

They can look really very nice! I’ve had friends that get them done and they look amazing!

@LadyEloise1

Yes, there are indeed private primary schools. I went to one - it folded a few years after my youngest sister left, many years ago now. It was extremely strict and very focused on academics. We were sent there because mum found out the local NS had enrolled 62 kids in junior infants, and still accepting applications, and one teacher. She also liked the uniform in the private school.

You think that it’s fair that the kids whose parents can afford the most expensive schools grab a disproportionate share of the university places? Right you are then!

@Iamthewombat
The most expensive schools are not that expensive, as many have stated.

Also, there are 52 fee paying secondary schools, out of a total of 730. Lots of other schools are very well represented in universities and other third level institutions in Ireland and abroad.

www.schooldays.ie/articles/about-school-league-tables
Some regional stats here.
As this site points out, rankings based on only one outcome of the educational experience are problematic.

can you please explain the Irish medium schools please? They are similar to private but free is the jist I'm getting?

@Kateforqueen
I suspect your question is based on assumptions formed from observation of British education, in particular, the understanding that private = quality.

Ireland doesn't have the state vs private divide that the UK does. There are lots of excellent non-fee paying schools, and there is no stigma attached to attending them. As stated upthread, the vast majority of Irish schools are tuition free (there are registration fees and parents pay for books, supplies, and uniforms) and every school follows the same national curriculum in all subjects, with all students taking the same exams. All the teachers come from the same teacher training courses and have all come through the same education system.

In general, a wide range of parents of all income levels, educational background, and educational expectations send their children to whatever school is available in a reasonable radius of their home. Sometimes the school's location means an easy drop off en route to work. Sometimes parents want to send their child to the school they themselves attended. Sometimes they want to send their child to any school other than the one they attended.. A lot of parents pay attention to the academic reputation of the schools in their area and to schools' reputation for turmoil in the classrooms, etc.

In the case of a gaeilscoil, parents might be attracted by the Irish medium, the possibility of becoming part of an Irish speaking community based around the school, or the calibre of exam results. There is an extra layer to the parental school selection process because of the Irish language.

When parents choose a fee paying school, the reasons are often to do with academic reputation, though sometimes sports (rugby) or other extracurricular opportunities are factored in. Some parents are attracted by the vision of an old boy or old girl network and what this can mean for a child later in life. There is also family tradition, especially in the case of Loreto schools, the Jesuit schools, and Blackrock College. There are denominational factors too - CoI, Jewish, RC, or more secular preferences. Or a preference for a single sex school, though a huge number of non fee-paying schools are single sex. There are several all-girls' schools which consistently do extremely well in academic rankings. Fee paying schools sometimes offer a wider range of subjects for Leaving Cert than other schools,, for instance more MFLs, and the promise that students will be able to take whatever combination of subjects they want to, whereas they might be restricted to certain combinations in other schools.

The one that gets to me is "How does she stay so thin? What's her secret?" There's not going to be any secret beyond not eating very much

To be fair, they probably can’t afford those types of extensions or have a private chef and plenty of time to work out.

It is what it is

That’s the point - you’ve never “seen” they because they can’t be seen 😂

*them

I love how much content about Irish schooling structure this thread has based solely on Pippa’s sister in law.

god knows I keep trying to bring it back to high quality hair extensions which is the topic of the thread. Oh wait … 😂

If one school is fee paying and the other isn’t, which is the most expensive? I can’t believe that I’m having to spell this out.

You think that it’s fair that the kids whose parents can afford the most expensive schools grab a disproportionate share of the university places? Right you are then!

The Irish fee-paying schools do send a lot of their students to university, it's true. How much of this is down to the teaching versus the demographic who attend the school is open to debate.

Schools in Ireland are not allowed to select students based on their academic ability as the grammar schools do in the UK. However, parents who pay for their children to attend fee-paying schools mostly have high educational expectations for their children and this strongly influences the exam results. The parents are often educated professionals themselves and are well-equipped to support their child educationally. The demographics of the non-fee paying school are typically more mixed. All this influences the results and it's not straightforward to tease apart.

Many parents send their children to fee-paying schools simply to get them in with what they perceive to be the 'right-set'. Not saying this is ideal, but this is what happens as you probably already know, particularly in areas of Dublin and to a lesser extent in the other cities. However, many other parts of the country have no local fee-paying schools at all.

The top performing school in the country in terms of third level advancement was a non fee paying all girls state school (for a good few years).

Yes, but private schools send a much higher proportion to university:

www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2022/12/14/feeder-schools-2022-top-tables/

Fee-paying schools still dominate our most sought-after courses in our traditional universities. They secured 2,935 places, or 71.5 per cent, as a proportion of their 2022 6th year numbers. Deis schools on the other hand secured 2,205 places in traditional universities, representing 22.3 per cent of the numbers who sat the Leaving Cert in those schools. Of the 40,986 students who completed the Leaving Cert cycle in non-Deis/non fee-paying schools, 42.9 per cent of the 2022 Leaving Cert cohort (17,572) progressed to places in traditional universities.

There are many incredible state schools in Ireland, but it's disingenuous to suggest that private education isn't chosen to given an academic advantage.

I agree @JenniferBarkley, but I wonder is the academic advantage as high as is often perceived? If exactly the same cohort of student could be looked at, in both fee-paying and non-fee paying environments, would there be a huge difference in the academic results achieved?

In Ireland I mean.

I certainly think the gap would be narrower than in other countries.

Smaller classes, better choices of subjects (so students can select options they will score well in), better facilities in things like science or home ec labs - surely all of this must result in higher marks.

I left school 20 years ago - my non-selecting (cheap) private secondary had more than half of our year getting over 500 points. I just can't imagine many state schools see that kind of performance.

Yes, @JenniferBarkley but why? That's what I'm not so sure about.
Small classes are an advantage. Not so sure that better equipped science labs or cookery rooms translate to better results to be honest. A non-disruptive environment where everyone has their sights on university is a huge plus of course, in terms of academic achievement at least. I think that's the biggest thing.

Oh FFS. If private education conferred no academic advantage and simply inheriting good genes from these highly educated professionals you describe were enough to get every child of such parents into top universities, nobody would pay for private education, would they? Do they teach logic in those schools?

Are science labs assessed these days? They weren't when I was a student but I have a feeling they are now. A well equipped lab with plenty of supplies so students can practice the experiments over and over again would of course be an advantage.

And, as you say, the general atmosphere. My school also didn't have many students with additional needs, moderate dyslexia was as much as I remember. Certainly no one with any obvious ASD or anyone who was disruptive. I think that has slowly started to change, but perhaps private schools have more scope to turn pupils away that won't be a good fit.