Harry and Megan: changed my mind after episode 5

[Lotzana]

I was never a massive H&M hater but I wasn't keen on how they kept going on about their experiences and being constant victims. Why not just let it go?

However after episode 5 where they explain the events around their decision to leave, I find myself feeling really bad for them and surprised at how different it was to the narrative we were fed in the press.

If it's all true what they say then it's appalling how they were treated and Im not surprised they want to set record straight.

I know many will say it's not all true and they're lying/ exaggerating but I'm not inclined to believe these royal secretaries/ William / Charles are all saints while H&M are the big villains either.

We only see a very polished version of the royals in public and everything is well controlled and orchestrated. Who's to know what it's really like behind the facade?

Yabu - can't stand H&M regardless of what they claim in the documentary

Yanbu - documentary made me rethink my view of them too and question narrative in press

I've always liked Harry and Meghan and thought her treatment by the press and people on social media was horrendous. I could see through all the headlines and watching the Netflix series just confirmed what I had always thought. I'm glad they have had their say and told their truths and I hope they now feel able to move on and put the past behind them.

‘Fairly well known name in Hollywood…’

Steady on, she had a regular part in a middling TV series filmed in Canada, not known in Hollywood movie circles. She may have been known on the Toronto sleb circles & more likely through her lifestyle blog.

complaints about media, gutter press etc. Netflix is part of that media. Netflix write their own story to sell views. This series is probably as accurate representation of what happened as The Crown.

My opinion is why shouldn’t they talk out about the way they were treated. Once again people are reading the headlines of certain media outlets and jumping on the same bandwagon. Meghan is an inspiration to so many women out there. If you’re being treated unfairly or unjustly then speak up. Especially if you are in the public eye. I want to know what this family that we are supposed to support and pay for are actually like. And I for one don’t want them representing a country that is one of the most multicultural countries in the world.

People saying Catherine also received the same treatment. No she didn’t! Read some of the articles written where they’ve shown the obvious difference in treatment to both women. Read this and say they were treated the same.

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal

My 14 years old and her friends are team MM. She says that she doesn’t want a RF that treats their own family like shit. It is going to be this generation that will decide the fate of the RF. This generation does not have any patience for racism or unjust behaviour and will call it out.

Another poster nailed it, the ‘firm’ felt threatened by this new couple and with the media destroyed her. Even now the British media will publish about the amazing William and Catherine. The same William who said his godmother made ‘an error in judgement’ with her comments to Ngozi Fulani. No it was not an error of judgement. It was racism. I find it hard to believe that this same woman in sixty years of being part of the RF has not said anything similar before. All they do is cover up their errors and then say things like ‘we don’t condone racism or bullying’

And to the poster who said H&M staff also kept leaving - yes this was the staff hired by the Firm. Probably feeding everything back to them.

As someone of colour and someone who has seen ‘errors of judgment’ aimed at herself I can relate to what Meghan went through. I still get asked ‘what’s that then’ when I tell someone my name!!! My response ‘ummm my name’???

sorry for the rant xx

Woah just stop. Stop with all the hate

I'd like to see William and Kate do their own six part special (on Prime of course!) and then I'll decide what I think .

Yanbu ish I think they have been unfairly treated. No one who is human could take what Meghan has and not be mentally ill. I felt really sorry for her on the Africa tour. She looked exhausted.

I also thought the 'example' Kate set of posing with a baby after birth was s terrible one. What message does that send to women? You should be up and polished hours after birth???

The unknown is what Meghan is really like. She COULD be a manipulator that had Harry entranced or she could be as she is at face value. We can't tell. And Harry could be s spoiled brat.

I really hope that isn't aimed at Eardrinkandbemerry

it was an interesting watch and I’m not sure what I believe. Undeniable though is that the press were awful and not just the British press. The one thing that really gets me though is On Twitter where there are a lot of supporters, mainly American shouting about how the British are all racist . I think that H&M make it pretty clear that the press were the problem.

@DuchessDandelion me too 🙁

The first three episodes annoyed me. Particularly the stereotyping of British people and culture eg. the Brexit backdrop, the comment around hugging being "jarring" for a lot of British people etc.

I've also been exceptionally annoyed throughout by the use of "they did this, they did that", and terms like "the Palace" and "the institution". It would be a lot easier to understand if they were more specific!

I warmed up to them a bit with episodes 4 and 45though, and can see the negative media attention and racism they have faced. I guess they wanted the RF to call out the media, but its a sticky situation as then the RF would end up at war with the press etc. Perhaps there could have been a halfway house there where they didn't directly confront the press but showed support in other ways.

Either way it seems to me like that is what caused the rift. The thing about planting/leaking stories by William's press office was a bit more difficult to judge - I'd be interested to know how many times this happened and if William knew about it.

I felt like they left without much foresight. Perhaps some longer term planning with the RF would have been better, but it seemed like they acted very impulsively.

Overall I guess I felt quite sad for Harry in particular to have lost his whole family. It doesn't matter how much money you have - that must be very difficult.

After all the efforts so many went through, and the lives put at risk to make sure Harry got his stint on the front line in Afghan, which was no mean feat. His Invictus games (which are a brilliant concept, but not actually his) are just a means to a ‘sleb end to him now. All very very sad.

There is not a single shred of humility, responsibility or trying to see the other side from H&M - it’s all about them. How they can live with that level of self-inflicted drama and angst when you’re that filthy rich is beyond me. The whole Netflix thing has the tang of something overwrought and disingenuous to me. They do not speak or behave like real people.

Was about to say this. Very easy to see that the queen’s speech was edited. Means nothing by itself but adds to the clamour of “edited’ for other segments (ie the videos of a press scrum, weren’t actually them, but footage from katie price / trump etc). Kind of makes the whole thing disingenuous.

All I know is I believe Harry and Meghan way more that I believe the DM and Piers Morgan. I don't really get why the DM hasn't just chosen to blank them entirely instead of making every single writer they have make dirt pieces, which just kind of proves what H & M are saying is true.

The only personally good thing that came out of this is I deleted the DM app of my phone. I realized that, by reading this crap even as a "hate read", I'm part of this insane farce and I don't want to be.

@EconomyClassRockstar £££££

I do not know you. But I can only assume the deep cynicism comes from not having a strong sense of justice in your own life experiences. That’s not a bad thing - it’s a very fortunate and privileged position that means you can’t emotionally relate to how a strong sense of justice feels can feel like hunger. And it’s that hunger for justice that comes through Harry and Meghan’s behaviours. It must be exhausting.

People fighting for justice can be viewed as boring complainers by those who do not understand the emotional drive of a strong sense of justice.

Think about it from the other side. What do the media have to lose from saying unjust things about Meghan and Harry? The media are not the judiciary; they are not concerned with truth or fairness. The media are concerned with selling stories and they sell more stories by getting an emotional reaction from the public. Anger and hatred are stronger emotions to evoke in readers than love and admiration for strangers because that comes with envy and jealously too.

the LA/Hollywood lifestyle they have chosen demonstrates very little commitment to social justice.

A strong sense of justice is emotional, not logical (logic, I think, is where the deep cynicism comes from). Like all emotions that sense of justice can be capricious.

Did you believe them when they told all those lies on Oprah?
Did you believe them when m said archbishop had acted illegally in marrying them 3 days before their wedding , and her passport was taken away from her for the period in which she had a dozen international jaunts?

That's great. I had hoped people would be less tolerant of gutter press after hearing they hacked Milly Dowler's phone etc, but it seems it made no difference.

i remember Sienna Miller saying "the only time a lone woman can get chased down the road by several men and no one cares - it's because they are the press". And she's right, no one cares. I find it bizarre.

I'm not familiar with the term "hate read" but just pleased to hear of a rejection of the gutter press.

I think it’s a beautifully put together piece and they’re a gorgeous loving family. I understand this is “their truth” not THE truth or full story.

For example, I bet William did raise his voice (maybe not scream), about what was conveniently left out. We’re left to think it was about them going live with their plan, and maybe it was or maybe it’s because Harry was calling their father a liar? We don’t know. Was the text from William completely rude and uncalled for or was it benign and off topic? Like “OMG we’re in the middle of recording our response to the palaces response to our Oprah interview and my brother is wondering what to get Archie for his birthday?!!!”

I hate to say this because I do like them, but it’s a bit used car sales man like. Like “Trust me this is a great car at a great price! No no don’t look under the hood, don’t you trust me?” Type of thing. 😂 sorry I don’t know how to explain that better.

I find it strange that they seam to believe the trope that ‘the common folk’ think royalty live a carefree life and never do normal things like gardening or painting. The times they were “people wouldn’t believe we did/live like this!” And it was just perfectly normal human behavior was a bit eye rolling.

The press is nasty, that’s undeniable. I wish they spent time on proposing solutions or something. The press has been terrible for years and it’s still getting worse. It’s not enough to just say the media is awful, racist, out of control or destroying lives. We all know that and it accomplishes nothing but more $$ for the media. The press is ultimately a reflection of the people. They’re business and worried first and foremost about the bottom line. If it doesn’t sell it’s not going to get printed. So in a way their true beef is with the public supporting these businesses by clicking/buying it.

Unfortunately “truth” is so subjective. You can’t mandate it. So that’s not an option, starving the beast with content seams to work for some.

I think the Obamas have perfected their media presence. They have a bit of the “never complain never explain” mantra going. They could bitch about many things, respond to every racist and untrue story about them, but they don’t and it works. Michelles treatment in the media around the world when Barrack was in office was far more racist, constant and slanted than what Harry and Megan dealt with and they’ve come out on top. They keep the focus on their objectives and narrative. They’re very smart and have an incredible team. It doesn’t stop some outlets from generating fake negative articles about them. But by going “grey rock” on them it does take the momentum away.

If you made it this far thanks for reading my debrief. 😂

There must be reasons why it's a good thing to mention a person's ethnicity, when they achieve something, but I can't see what it is.

I feel people should just be viewed for themselves - Barack Obama included; also Beyonce, and any black actor who is playing Hamlet or Macbeth.

I wonder if Meghan ever wanted her life and achievement to be viewed through the lens of her ethnicity?

I think the press and all of us should let people define themselves.

Meghan has a strong drive and work ethic. She is beautiful and can adopt different styles. She is capable of shaping her own destiny in any way that she chooses, and always has been. It feels to me that labelling her as the first biracial royal is to take away her own agency for what she wants to be known for.

Why does the press do it?

The Crown is fiction.

Oh I agree
I hate that race is such a big deal now, I grew up just feeling I was British and my skin colour shouldn't be a factor. I never apply for jobs when they say BAME women are under represented. I don't want to be the diversity hire.

but I could see that people were pleased about a biracial royal so, I just accept that. It shouldn't have been a big deal but I have community contacts who were chuffed to bits, thought she wouldn't be allowed to marry a Royal etc etc.

i don't know why the press do any of it.

I really have not interest in their family falling outs.The core working royals have a job to do. If they don't like the job they can go and be private citizens like the rest of the family, but they can't have their cake and eat it. They can't get Metropolitan Police security and attend high profile events while also constantly filming themselves for their own reality TV series. If you think that non one noticed them recording their every move and that this didn't cause anxiety then you are kidding yourself.

If Meghan wants to be an actress, great! She can eat her heart out, go on chat shows and talk about her films. If she was on good terms with the monarchy she might even drop in the odd feel-good comment like Mike Tindall does. But trashing your extended family is below the belt, regardless of how difficult family relations were. Doing so while enjoying a luxury lifestyle because of your connections to those very people and the money they have given you is entitled in the extreme. Doing so during the biggest cost of living crisis in more than 40 years, when people cannot afford to heat their homes or cook supper, let alone buy Christmas presents, it shows that they are too out of touch to be worthy of a second's concern or empathy. Honestly, save your energy for some people who are really suffering. There are a lot of them.

It's all a bit made in Chelsea, hey?