Discussing the things we liked about Harry and Meghan's Netflix documentary series

[MrsMaxDeWinter]

There are so many threads on things posters hated about Harry and Meghan, the Netflix series, and fair play to those posters, so I thought I would have a go at stating a thread discussing some of the things that posters liked about the series.

I'll start.

I liked that this was supposed to be this bomb detonation, but has actually been a measured, warm, and loving look at H and M's relationship, and the pressures that the press put on them, and also on other royals. I genuinely did not notice anything incendiary. Maybe that is still to come.

I enjoyed the thoughtful insights shared on the invisible contract, especially, as Harry says, having to perform for a press that you know has said hurtful things about people you love.

I loved the warm memories of Sandringham, and meeting the Queen. And Meghan's memories of growing up. I think it was a wise, though sad, that they did not include Thomas. I really loved hearing Doria: my favourite bit is when a journalist offered her money, for an interview about Meghan and she said, "That's my child!"

I also learned for the first time about Meghan's relationship with her sister Samantha's daughter Ashleigh. I had no idea that she had been raised by her grandparents who adopted her, or that she had such a warm and caring relationship with Meghan. Along with Doria's, that was my favourite interview.

I enjoyed hearing from her childhood friends, as it is often said here that she had no friends who came to the wedding etc, just celebrities. They seem a tight nit grip who have been here fr years, and I am glad she has them.

I was gobsmacked that she needed security in Toronto after the relationship was announced.

I also thought the discussion on racism, in its wider context of colonialism and imperialism, was very well done, but then again it was led by David Olusoga and Afua Hirsch, who are always great, and I love their writing.

Most of all I love that Harry confronted head on the Nazi uniform debacle, and what he learned from it. And I loved, loved, loved, the segment on his life in Lesotho where they gave him the Sesotho name, "Mahale". A wonderful name.

“It was one of the biggest mistakes of my life,” Harry said. “I felt so ashamed afterwards. All I wanted to do was make it right. I sat down and spoke to the chief rabbi in London, which had a profound effect on me. I went to Berlin and spoke to a Holocaust survivor. I could have just ignored it and made the same mistakes over again in my life. But I learned from that.”

I predicted on another thread that Harry would address this and other episodes head on in his book. I was scoffed roundly for this. I expect him to say more in is book, and I am happy to be proved right.

If only for this, I am very glad they did this.

But it isn't one or the other, is it?

It's not that anyone is either absolutely privileged or absolutely dispossessed (well, not in this scenario).

I am white - privileged
I am female - my life is affected by misogyny.

Of course no-one should be expected to tolerate abuse. But, if you have the bank balance and social privilege to move away from that abuse, do it. And recognise that many others do not have the bank balance and social privilege - they are the victims.

And if you put out statements saying you want to remain part of an institution that you see as abusive, racist and/or misogynist etc then that does raise questions about why you want to remain connected to it.

Yes, the fact they seem to want to have it both ways irritates a lot of people. The bottom line though is that they will probably ultimately have damaged themselves by their decisions - their children may well not be allowed to get to know either grandfather for example and both of H&M on the programme say that they have lost the lives they had.
Someone wrote "I am appalled that Charles and William would be a party to leaking stories about Harry and Meghan to the gutter press". That is just something implied in the programme - that is completely different from its being true.

I think they have made the mistake of over-promising and under-delivering more than once.

Claims are undermined when no details are produced to be examined. Someone said something racist at some point - no further details. Charles/William leaked to the gutter press - when, which story, where is the evidence?

Didn't one of the people on the programme say that they had seen evidence that C/W leaked a story? Then why not produce it? If you make an accusation, back it up with proof. That's only fair to the people you accuse.

Cannot believe that Kate’s shady uncle Gary has now blabbed to the papers too! What an embarrassment to the RF!

Unfortunately embarassing family members happen to all of us...

The whole point of the summit was them proposing to remove themselves physically from court, but they still wanted to serve the queen.

You are trying to twist things, so you can justify to everyone why you hate them. Instead of saying exactly why you hate them.

I don't know why people keep repeating this.

The RF is a British institution. It represents all of us. It. has. to. change.

Not H&M.

This kind of talk is paramount to a poc complaining about racism and you tell them, 'well leave then!". It is highly offensive. It's not the victim who has to change it's the abuser ! Get that straight.

Also H&M must be stripped of their titles - just like A&L have been of their birthright.

They should not voluntary drop them.

So that it becomes clear as a historical record that first black princess was stripped (just as the first mixed children were denied their birthright) for princessing while black and checks notes erm........ moving back to her home county.

While these feckers right here retained their titles with no pushback at all.

You can also add 'lady' Hussey for her racism and 'duke' of Marlborough for his long rap sheet of jail time to the list too.

Exactly this. And I would add that people love to ignore that the institution itself needs massive reform. Why are press offices acting against each other putting out negative press to hide other press. Noone wonder he is pissed off at his brother. They had an agreement that both their press offices would never do that like they had lived through with their mum and dad. So you have to wonder when williams press office broke that agreement why did William did not put a stop to it, why did it carry on.

Id be seriously pissed off with my brother if he did nothing.

Why are people so in love with an institution that allows people to be torn apart in public. They might need the media but there is a limit.

As for media saying its public interest...I dont give a crap about their holidays or seeing pictures of them on holiday or what they are wearing all the time or that they were the same dress twice. Nor do I care if they eat avocados or hold their baby bump. More I.portant things to be reported

Such great posts!

We can forget about the titles being removed. It is a red flag that the Daily Mail and other tabloids will wave out every now and then, to stoke hatred and keep people gnashing in their comments sections and here on Mumsnet and elsewhere, but it is not going to happen.

And that's for two simple reasons, both related to self-preservation by the monarchy.

The first is that, hidebound as the Royal Family is, even in their anger at Meghan, they surely realise how damaging the narrative will be that they removed the title of the first woman of colour to marry into the Royal Family. I mean come on people, think about it. Whatever the reasons for removal may be, this is the one fact that the world that is not controlled by the British media will run with. Imagine how that will go down in the Commonwealth from which they get their relevance. That alone will trigger so much resentment. And I emphasise that Britain is a small pond whose press they can control, but they do not control the press of other countries who will see it for what it is.

The second reason the titles won't be removed is that once people suss out that titles can be removed so easily, the question will be, well why not remove more titles. Perhaps even all of them?

All of the Royal Family, yes, including Harry and Meghan, have a vested interest in the monarchy. Sure, Harry and Meghan, just like Diana, and indeed Charles, wanted those aspects to change that they were chafing against, but make no mistake, republicans they are not. Whatever reforms they might want to see, anti-monarchist they are definitely not.

@rumship it is Oprah, not 'Opera". And as long as you use stupid nicknames to put people down, no-one can take your opinion seriously. As Meghan said in one of her podcasts, I won't elevate that which is beneath me.

Exactly this. Lots of talk about their opinion, a lawyer even featured and said she saw evidence. So where is it?!

They've made themselves look incredibly foolish. Anyone well known could do a reality show and throw allegations about, but for it all to be credible, it needs to be backed up and none of their tales are.

I hope they are looking after their wellbeing because as the whole thing continues to unravel you can't help thinking that they don't have the resilience to cope with the wide spread derision or the right people around them to guide them and support them.

@MrsMaxDeWinter

The RF has never spoken about titles being removed ? So you’re taking something made up from the media and using it to beat the royal family with.
Is this not exactly the same thing that Harry and Meghan were upset about ?

and then applauding yourselves for your great posts.

This is rather disingenuous, considering that you have panelist every morning repeating what is said on those papers. You have 'what's in the papers' on News, discussions on serious shows like Newsnight. You have breakfast shows like GMB, Lorraine, Jeremy Vine, This Morning,Loose Women, etc. all shouting down hatred for MM and repeating what is in the papers. You then get the public phoning in and you see they actually believe all this rubbish.

So more than the numbers you are quoting. I say millions more. It's a ripple.

What makes it worse is that the shows and papers we are talking about also in the same breath talk about important issues from NHS, education, the government etc. meaning they are not confined to just gossip mags. If H&M were only covered by the likes of Now/Closer or some other magazine that sits at the back and is only bought by bored housewives as fodder down the nail and hair saloon, it probably would be no big deal. But with British tabloids you have Garry and his mates down the pub setting the world right, a head of department receiving this to know what the world is up to today, and everyone in-between reading and listening to all this in between serious matters.

However, I digress. In my last paragraph. Because it does matter - it matters a big deal, because it's about race within the highest ranks of our society. Therefore representing us as a society. The insidious thing is that the press presents it all as gossip. So you have people who are serous about issues in this country dismissing it as gossip. Meanwhile the antiracists are in outrage about how MM is being treated, while racists themselves are outraged for being outed and come up with all sorts of flimsy excuses for their ott hatred. Either way, the British tabloids are making a lot of money.

You are going to great lengths to stretch your logic in an attempt to try to defend and explain why anyone would want to negotiate to be actively in service to a system that was toxic to them…

But it just doesn’t hang together.

Charles/William leaked to the gutter press - when, which story, where is the evidence?

Didn't one of the people on the programme say that they had seen evidence that C/W leaked a story? Then why not produce it? If you make an accusation, back it up with proof. That's only fair to the people you accuse.

I posted this somewhere else a few days ago - I don't know the name of this journalist but she says when she worked in the newsroom, all the negative stories about Harry and Meghan came from Kensington Palace.

twitter.com/factsand2cents/status/1601573321346527233?s=20&t=mEcTs1IYeK_HbIjhE1gGyA

So I think it's very clear William was indeed briefing against them. I'm surprised people haven't made more of that tbh, it's probably the main reason Harry is burning bridges now. A huge betrayal from his brother. I have more respect for them giving their side openly than this underhanded horse-trading with the press that William apparently does.

It does though. They've explained things clearly enough now in the documentary, why are you trying to argue otherwise?

Maybe you would have felt differently but it's clear to me they wanted to make things work until they could no longer cope with what was happening. The Sandringham summit was a turning point at which it became clear they weren't going to be able to find a compromise. It's often only when things come to a head that you then remove yourself from a situation and begin to make sense of it with the benefit of hindsight, and distance.

Great post.

Also, didn't someone in parliament recently talk about removing their titles. I was gobsmacked, such blatant racism can be allowed in parliament. As I said, none of them ever asked for titles to be removed from people who have offended and actually broke the law before. The gall of him to stand there and say that and no one seems to challenge him.

How about we stop calling it the 'House of Lords' and strip them all, just for a start, then work our way through all the dukes, counts, ladies and any other title and merit (except those who earned it via charity work)😏.

Ok, so I was already in tears from the get go, especially in episode 4. But the most hard hitting was MM's pleas. I was bawling by then :

"You are making people want to kill me. It’s not just a tabloid, it’s not just some story, you are making me scared… And you’ve created it for what? Because you’re bored or because it sells your papers or it makes you feel better about your own life?"

twitter.com/scobie/status/1603330828188389376

And I for one always thought the miscarriage was caused by all the stress and agree with Harry that the press have much to answer for.

Then they will have no problem backing up their claims with evidence, will they? Why aren't they publishing it?

Yet their titles from this toxic family on their Holiday Card as well as all the other business stuff...it is almost like that neither of them feel good enough on their own. It's quite sad in a way but as they say "misery loves company".

And yet the medical evidence is that miscarriages are not caused by stress.

I don't know. Are you saying you don't believe them or just criticising them for not making the evidence public?

I am criticising them for making accusations and not making the evidence public. If W was briefing against his brother, publish it. I am not a royalist, I couldn't care less if W ends up looking bad.

Equally, if W's staff are doing this without his authorisation then he can sack them. Or not - which will also be informative.

Otherwise it looks as if H&M are constructing a narrative to suit themselves without any reference to the inconvenience of mere truth. Which says a lot about them - not very flattering things.

The same for the racist comments about Archie claims in the OW interview. Substantiate them and let the people involved take the consequences.

Or don't make the claims.

Scientifically , stress doesn’t lead to miscarriage. Up to 20 percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage, but at meghans age it is 40 percent do, potentially much higher as so many go unreported.

She was basically statistically looking at a one in two chance of miscarriage , so as sad as it was, the daily mail and the stress of suing them really wasn’t to blame. It was her age and the fact the foetus likely wouldn’t have been developing properly , which is the most common cause.

it wouldn’t be right to peddle that stress causes miscarriage on a parenting site, when there is no evidence of such a thing,