Rumour that the King won't make Edward Duke of Edinburgh

[PrincessJanet]

Allegedly as part of the King's desire for a slimmed down monarchy.

I would have thought that the Royal Family could really do with the Wessexes as working royals. If they slim down so far in a few years they'll soon beonly the Cambridges available.

I know that Sophie has said that it is up to her children at age 18 whether they will use HRH. I seriously doubt this. There is no way that either Louise or James will start calling themselves HRH without the King's agreement, which I highly doubt would be forthcoming.

It could also be made for life, meaning it would not pass to heirs.

Can you think of an example when this happened?

I think the best thing would be for Charles to elevate the Wessex earldom and make Edward Duke of Wessex.

I don't think that's possible, for the same reason the Queen couldn't give it as a Dukedom. Edward wanted Wessex for romantic reasons (apparently he favoured the character Lord Wessex in a Shakespeare play - I'm not familiar with this myself). Wessex is an Earldom, but there was the promise of the Edinburgh Dukedom in time.

They are working royals as they are

I think it's some cheek to say, "you can't have a Duchy because I want a smaller royal family but will you keep doing royal work please".

I can't remember why they are not HRH, unless it was a decision made by Edward and Sophie, or the Queen, before they were born but the letters patent issued in 1917 assigned a princely status and the style of Royal Highness to all children of a monarch's sons, so I'm sure Louise and James would be entitled to it whatever old Charlie thinks.

I imagine he wants it for Louis? Or maybe Charlottes future husband?
It’s his I guess so up to him.

I don't think there have ever been life dukedoms, but there are life peerages in the lower ranks, and I don't think there is any reason, other than tradition, there could not be a life dukedom. It actually makes sense with royal dukedoms, otherwise, the traditional royal ones can become non-royal in a couple of generations, as will happen with Kent and Gloucester when the present holders die.

There is no reason that Wessex can't be a dukedom. It would be two titles; the dukedom would be a new creation. In fact, the King could create a new Duke of Wessex title that Louise could inherit, and James would inherit the earldom.

For example, there are two holders of the Sutherland titles, an earldom and a dukedom. The titles were once held by the same person, but when he died, his daughter inherited the earldom (could pass to women) and a male relative inherited the dukedom (could only pass to men.) The Countess in her own right recently died and her earldom went to her son, while the dukedom passed through the other line.

That's really interesting about the Sutherland titles, thank you.

They are HRH and princess and prince according to the 1917 LPs, but the announcement was made when Edward married that his children would use titles as children of an earl. There was no mention at all of there being a choice to be made at 18; the first mention of that came from Sophie, as far as I know.

At the time, there was reporting that the change was because of a desire to slim down the monarchy and that Charles was involved in the decision. In fact, it supposedly kicked up a bit of a fuss because of speculation that maybe Beatrice and Eugenie should follow the same route.

There is no way that Louise and James will use those titles without Charles's agreement. It would not be at all in keeping with the slimmed down monarchy notions.

I wonder who William will have as his stand-ins if Charles dies while his children are still teenagers.

No one seems to be thinking of this.

Do you not understand that it seems strange, to A LOT of people that anyone cares about the royals that much. It has absolutely no bearing on your life really does it? 🤷🏻‍♀️

And thank you. It is interesting; the earldom is a much older title in the peerage of Scotland. Many titles created in the peerage of Scotland provided for inheritance by women, if no male heir. But the dukedom is in the peerage of the UK, and most of the UK peerages are limited to male heirs.

Most things posted on mn have no bearing on my life. I still sometimes post on them though

I'm not at all sure how much royal work any of them do but he needs to remember he only has one child himself who is a working royal and quite some time before w&k children can take over . He's nor necessarily going to live as long as his parents did

I wonder who William will have as his stand-ins if Charles dies while his children are still teenagers.

I guess it'll be whoever the normal rules of Counsellors of State. Notwithstanding any untimely deaths, Catherine plus the existing ones.

Do you not understand that it seems strange, to A LOT of people that anyone cares about the royals that much. It has absolutely no bearing on your life really does it?

Of course I understand that, not least because I'm a republican. I still find the history and protocol of all it absolutely fascinating.

In terms of future working Royals, I think it'd be well-worth keeping any of the Wessexes who want to be involved. They'd be similar to our current Gloucesters and Kents.

I think he might want it for Louis too.

The Duke of York title will presumably revert to the crown when Andrew dies, so that could go to Louis then, but I can imagine that it will be a few years before anyone wants to use that.

We have definitely seen a different side to Charles since he became king - he has not even been officially crowned yet!

Or maybe Charlottes future husband?

Or maybe Charlotte herself? It's high time for these titles to go to women, if y'all are going to keep them. (I say y'all because I'm American, so nothing to do with me really.)

Well, considering the hoo-ha in Wales, would the good people of Scotland actually want Prince Edward as Duke of Edinburgh?

He’ll have Catherine. Then, currently, he’d have Harry, Andrew, Beatrice and Eugenie.

If they removed Harry and Andrew (which they won’t imo, they’ll add on) it would be Beatrice, Eugenie, Edward and Anne. With Louise replacing Anne when she turns 21.

It’ll likely be (if it happened in the next year or two) Catherine, Harry and Andrew as technically available but unused, Beatrice and then the additional two Charles has asked for. There’s also scope for Camilla to be added as the Queen Mother was, but I think that’s doubtful to happen (don’t think she’d want it).

The fact that Edward and Sophie are so much younger than Charles is going to make them an important part of that working royal bunch going forward.

I would think that if he doesn’t get the Edinburgh title it’s because they don’t want it for James in future.

What other dukedoms are available to the crown? Cumberland? Clarence?

Does anyone have a link?

Charlotte will get Princess Royal in her lifetime, but I reckon her spouse and children would go the way of Margaret and Anne's families.

I've looked at the reports of the rumour and they all stem from the same Daily Mirror's 'palace source'. I'll take a rain check on Charles being 'mean' until it becomes fact!

I agree. Whatever Charles decides, I don't think he'll be being mean. He seems to have a good relationship with the Wessexes. He's just conscious of the public mood and feelings about cost and he's trying to balance the needs of keeping the monarchy functioning vs the public appearance and backlash.

Cumberland isn’t available. Cumberland & Teviotdale was one of the ones that was removed in the 1917 rifle deprivation act so it’s a disputed title. Same with Albany Dukedom and some Earldoms.

The suggestions of available Dukedoms when Harry was getting married tended to be - Clarence, Kendal, Ross, Windsor or Hereford.

They can of course just create new ones as long as there is not a current Duke.