Prince William goes 'deer culling' in Balmoral

[vera99]

What's wrong with these people? I can maybe understand the need for occasional culling (though it is most often for the human agency not a concern for the animal) but to go out and enjoy stalking these magnificent creatures get them in the sights of your guns and kill them - that's just sick.

PS. King Charles was a big fan of fox hunting

AIBU? - Yes this is actual nature conservation activity and William is showing concern and leadership in participating in the shooting.

YANBU? - No this is a sick perverted hobby of the super-rich who glory in the pleasure killing of defenceless animals.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11300807/Prince-Wales-visits-Balmoral-goes-deer-stalking-Scotland-trip-Queens-funeral.html

"Deer stalking is the act of culling ageing stags that would otherwise die in the winter, with William shooting his first when he was 14 years old, something that is said to have left him delighted at the time.
The activity, which has been a shared passion among generations of the Royal Family, was encouraged by William's father King Charles III, while Princess Diana used to jokingly call him 'my killer Wales'.
William is not thought to have been joined in Scotland by his wife Catherine, who is herself a keen markswoman, and their children. A spokesman for Kensington Palace declined to comment."

An ethical viewpoint

Scotland has far more dispersed settlements than most countries with lynx. Scandanavia for example has huge areas of wilderness to accomodate them. It would be much more of a logistical issue in Scotland for that reason alone.

The biggest problem here (ireland) is foxes going after the lambs, I’d say lynx would be worse. My friend is currently looking to get Llamas / alpaca as they keep the foxes away, we’ll be overrun with llamas next 🤣

@Octomore Studies have shown that lynx prefer sheep to deer. The introduction of sufficient lynx to make a difference would probably mean the end of sheep farming in Scotland. Whether that is a good or bad thing depends on your viewpoint. I despair

😆
My shepherd is sheep and cattle scanner but she sometimes does llamas. God they're bad tempered. I won't repeat the names she calls them. But yes good guard animals

How do the llamas do with wolves 🤣

listening to the radio today, it was all the city folk (formerly one myself) complaining about gulls.
they are nesting in the gutters and dive bombing house owners.

They’re protected under EU law, so no action can be taken

God knows but I'm not sleeping outside with the sheep to scare them away.

And lots of sheep in fields with only low walls, no problem for lynx to jump over. Would definitely be an issue.

Though despite the larger wilderness area here, my friend still had a lynx wandering around in her back garden (not in the wilderness, just outskirts of town) Luckily she doesn't have any pets.

This is one of the reasons why some campaigners want lynx re-introduced. So that the herds can be naturally culled, and so that the herds will move on naturally once they know a predator is in the area, and not decimate an area's flora.

You're serious aren't you

Ooh yes please. Let’s start with those who get
off on hurting innocent creatures for fun 🙌🏼

It's interesting they don't target renters. Are these gulls a bit left wing?

@gnilliwdog - I didn’t meant ‘just the home owners’ - I meant the people living there. Some have to run to their cars with umbrellas up according to people ringing in.

it does raise the point that fishing practises have changed (in Dublin where I’m from’) and the gulls have adapted too

@gnilliwdog

just read the last bit 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yes, sorry, just got to the silly hour! Must be my bedtime.

If you get to a certain level as a fairly good marksman you don't really lose it. Not in the UK but in an area also overrun by deer. DH usually shoots one or two a year which we eat - rarely buy beef anymore as we substitute venison for all beef dishes. A leaner, wild-raised meat.

Anyway the times I've seen him do it - the animal is down and instantly dead in one shot. No long suffering. One moment they were having a wonderful calm experience in the outdoors and then gone - no fear, not 'hunted', not chained up in an abattoir waiting to die. A much more humane death than the beef we would normally be eating.

He doesn't enjoy the killing - much like a farmer doesn't 'enjoy' the death of his animals. It's possible though to take pleasure in a skill - and for DH a skill which also feeds his family.

I honestly don't understand why it bothers some of you who does the deer culling, unless you have some evidence that the practice is being misused in some way that is resulting in animal cruelty.

If the estates are managing their culls humanely - why does it matter who does the shooting?

I’ve seen it go wrong in the US, I’d presume it’s not always one shot here either resulting in suffering. Not nice to see, even more unpleasant for the deer. It’s shouldn’t be something to have a go at but it is.

But my point is - if the culls on the Royal estates are managed well by experienced marksmen (and I have no evidence either way about family members experience) then it shouldn't matter which person is taking the shot.

If people have evidence of badly run culls with inexperienced people 'just having a go' resulting in lots of animal abuse and suffering then they should complain, get press involved etc etc. for those specific estates.

Just seems odd to say William shouldn't be involved in a legit estate cull for a moral reason?

Do you know there’s allegedly been threats to people’s lives amongst other things towards people have made such complaints and put videos on social media that are conveniently taken down? That’s not a fight for the average person to take on. We need more like Chris Packham with a bit of influence, money and who can afford some protection.

I've learnt a lot today and thanks for all the insightful contributions from whatever your side of the debate. For me personally, as a townie muesli knitting vegan in the concrete jungle, how we interact with our natural environment and the stewardship we have inherited is as much a moral/spiritual thing as a practical consideration.

By ceasing to rear and kill animals for food, we can make so much extra food available for humans that, properly distributed, it would eliminate starvation and malnutrition on this planet as well as making a major contribution to global warming. Raising livestock generates 14.5 per cent of global greenhouse gas emissions.

And yes I am an anti-royalist and framed the OP in the context of Prince William choosing to kill animals for sport which for me is beyond the pale. Thanks to all the knowledgeable country folk who educated me in the ways of country estates and their hunting policies.

If King Charles really wants to be head of the state of all 'his' people then his advisors would be well advised to clean up this side of his families behaviour as it is plainly obvious in 2022 that this will be repulsive to a large segment of the population regardless of whether other rich people do or don't do.

The Chris Packham slurs are really, really low and I hope those making them reflect on that. He was violently in what was plainly a terrorist attack for his views and all good people stand with him and not his aggressors.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/17971416/chris-packham-arson-attack-firebombed/

Oh and finally foxes are not vermin they are smart, clever animals that live on the fringes of our world. Killing them just leaves territory open that will be quickly recolonised. They avoid nearly all contact with other animals that could potentially do them harm and that includes humans, and attacks on humans are exceedingly rare to be newsworthy and indeed are a huge magnitude less than domestic dogs in any case. They are generally monogamous and mate for life and take care of their kits (cubs) with consummate care may be many humans could learn from this!

A moment I caught in a Ring camera in my garden, a mother's love for her child. Have a great night - over and out!

there are also plenty of estates that deliberately try to keep deer numbers fairly high specifically so that they can charge people lots of money to come and kill a few deer.

Yep.

Even our own dear late and lamented queen got the tax bill on shooting at Balmoral reduced to below the rates paid by local hospitality businesses.

And anyone who thinks Wills doesn't get anything out of it is welcome to come and explain away l'il George inducted into gateway grouse hunting at seven.

He's a hero in my world in so many ways and it's no surprise to find out what is his favourite animal!

www.facebook.com/ChrisGPackham/videos/349892097187879/

As I eat meat I have no issue with people hunting overpopulated species if they are considerate and humane in their approach to their hunt. And if they keep animal welfare at the front of their approach it doesn't bother if they also enjoy the skill of the shoot. And it doesn't make a difference to me if that person is rich or poor, titled or not.

But I wouldn't be opposed to better regulations to ensure the highest standards of animal welfare and treatment in the same way that I assume all abattoirs are inspected and evaluated. Big estates being monitored, serious records and reporting, a government body to evaluate best practices etc.

And I would support prosecution for anyone who targets people who want to expose animal cruelty.

@vera99 re this comment

If King Charles really wants to be head of the state of all 'his' people then his advisors would be well advised to clean up this side of his families behaviour as it is plainly obvious in 2022 that this will be repulsive to a large segment of the population regardless of whether other rich people do or don't do.

At the moment about 86% of the population are meat eaters. Culling deer (as long as it's done professionally, AND at the moment there's no suggestion that any of the royal family hunters are not acting professionally) is no more cruel and repulsive than cows, pigs and chicken being killed to be eaten at an abattoir.

I believe the royal estate makes use of any deer meat they can so it's not just for sport - it's food and land conservation.