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The royal family
Original poster

Prince William goes 'deer culling' in Balmoral

619 replies

vera99 · 11/10/2022 07:48

What's wrong with these people? I can maybe understand the need for occasional culling (though it is most often for the human agency not a concern for the animal) but to go out and enjoy stalking these magnificent creatures get them in the sights of your guns and kill them - that's just sick.

PS. King Charles was a big fan of fox hunting

AIBU? - Yes this is actual nature conservation activity and William is showing concern and leadership in participating in the shooting.

YANBU? - No this is a sick perverted hobby of the super-rich who glory in the pleasure killing of defenceless animals.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11300807/Prince-Wales-visits-Balmoral-goes-deer-stalking-Scotland-trip-Queens-funeral.html

"Deer stalking is the act of culling ageing stags that would otherwise die in the winter, with William shooting his first when he was 14 years old, something that is said to have left him delighted at the time.
The activity, which has been a shared passion among generations of the Royal Family, was encouraged by William's father King Charles III, while Princess Diana used to jokingly call him 'my killer Wales'.
William is not thought to have been joined in Scotland by his wife Catherine, who is herself a keen markswoman, and their children. A spokesman for Kensington Palace declined to comment."

An ethical viewpoint

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Octomore · 11/10/2022 12:03

TheForestFloor · 11/10/2022 11:59

The lack of understanding here is why rewilding largely wont happen.

rewilding isn’t about reintroducing species and leaving them to it. It isn’t about letting your land overgrow with bracken and bramble, that isn’t rewilding. You still have to manage it. Humans have to do this because we don’t have the same numbers or species we used to where things would happen naturally.

Spaces need to be grazed in order for wildflowers to grow. This is imperative, it has to happen otherwise wildflowers will not be able to grow (yellow rattle will reduce this somewhat or you could scythe/mow). Woods need to be coppiced to allow light and warmth onto the woodland floor for flowers to grow, for invertebrates and birds and mammals to take advantage of up the food chain. Invasive species must be removed, they are strangling our native species that works in perfect balance.

Rewilding isn’t just shoving in animals and then leaving it, the land they live on and sometimes the species have to be managed. They HAVE
to be because nature is so unbalanced now that you can’t. Eventually in years to come maybe, but right now this has to happen.

We need to work in sync, multiple things need to happen to ensure the safe future of wildlife. We need long term in depth strategic planning. You can’t introduce apex predators right now because you would need multiple areas and wildflower corridors to ensure safe travel. It’s not feasible as it would take a seismic shift in societal attitudes. We are not there yet and I doubt we ever will be in the U.K. as it isn’t profitable.

People don’t realise what a mess nature is in. We are going to lose many more species very quickly and it will have a huge detrimental affect. We have to step in now and get a move on to make such changes. Deer culling is currently part of that. Ground nesting birds can be decimated by deer. Woodland habitats destroyed. We don’t have much of these things and we need to protect them. Yes deer are beautiful, but they cannot be allowed to dominate at the expense of other species.

People need to get their head out of the sand. The future is very precarious. When it comes to nature, I am terrified. It is very very bleak.

I am very much in favour of a managed long term process for rewilding. Fully agree that it will be decades, if not longer, but we have to start somewhere.

In the meantime, grazing animal populations (not just deer!) need reducing, but this should be profesionally managed rather than undertaken as a sport. The sport has too many vested interests.

antelopevalley · 11/10/2022 12:05

Octomore · 11/10/2022 11:59

Upthread I linked a gamekeepers' magazine which openly stated that feeding wild red deer was common practice. Maybe that magazine was wrong? I've also seen deer feed in upland areas.

I live rurally, surrounded by grouse moors owned by one of the largest landowning estates, and I walk on them several times a week. I see the grouse feed with my own eyes. I also see (or rather don't see) the lack of raptors, despite the fact that they are plentiful elsewhere in this area.

I also live near an place where they release thousands and thousands of bred pheasants every year, for shooting.

The idea that shooting is a regrettable necessity done for conservation reasons is just bollocks. The types of shooting undertaken by the upper classes are done for fun, and there is an industry supporting it.

I have no actual objection to the shooting of animals where they are pests. E.g. farmers shooting rabbits. But I do object to turning into part of the entertainment industry and labelling it "conservation".

THIS
Those who support hunting either because they enjoy it or make money from it pretend it is about conservation and we are all a bunch of Townies. That is not true. We see for ourselves this is a sport.
Culling and conservation is totally separate from hunting for sport. They pretend it is the same to pull the wool over your eyes.

TheForestFloor · 11/10/2022 12:05

People who are anti-culling may have never seen the destruction that can be caused. Imagine planting acres of woodland, then after about 12 years the grey squirrels come in an decimate the lot. They strip the bark, kill the trees and leave nothing but wasteland. This happens, more frequently that you might think. They’re cute with their fluffy tails but culling then is necessary. You cannot give them contraception because you cannot target them, plus in certain areas you’d end up with dead red squirrels too. Sometimes intervention prevents the death of so many more.

antelopevalley · 11/10/2022 12:06

But hunting will continue. There are too many rich people, including the Royal Family, who enjoy this to get it stopped.

JennyForeigner · 11/10/2022 12:07

TirisfalPumpkin · 11/10/2022 08:03

I guess the top predators are extinct so princes have to step in. I’d rather re-introduce wolves/bears/lynx tbh. Let the elites go deer stalking with a risk of getting mauled and eaten, as royals in the past had to contend with.

I wish there was a like button.

Octomore · 11/10/2022 12:09

TheForestFloor · 11/10/2022 12:05

People who are anti-culling may have never seen the destruction that can be caused. Imagine planting acres of woodland, then after about 12 years the grey squirrels come in an decimate the lot. They strip the bark, kill the trees and leave nothing but wasteland. This happens, more frequently that you might think. They’re cute with their fluffy tails but culling then is necessary. You cannot give them contraception because you cannot target them, plus in certain areas you’d end up with dead red squirrels too. Sometimes intervention prevents the death of so many more.

I don't find grey-squirrel culling problematic at all.

  • They're not native.
  • Their presence is detrimental to our existing native species.
  • The killing of squirrels is not marketed as entertainment/fun to my knowledge - it's presumably done by professionals only.
AnApparitionQuipped · 11/10/2022 12:10

Unless posters are vegan (which I acknowledge many might be) they can't really complain about this without hypocrisy.

gnilliwdog · 11/10/2022 12:11

I'm mildly hopeful that AI can help us work out strategy and permutations to restoring natural balance to the environment. It has the advantage of lacking human emotions such as greed and is purely logical to an end. I expect some of our best may be working on it.

antelopevalley · 11/10/2022 12:13

Don't patronise us. We know the difference between culling and hunting for sport. Talk of fluffy tails just treats us as if we are thick.
I see what happens. The feeding of the deer to keep numbers high so there are enough to hunt. The hunting of stags rather than the old, sick or females that breed. The rich people coming up to Scotland to pay money to hunt stags.

DogInATent · 11/10/2022 12:14

We have to cull the deer.
If we don't, what will the elephants have left to eat?

antelopevalley · 11/10/2022 12:16

Octomore · 11/10/2022 12:09

I don't find grey-squirrel culling problematic at all.

  • They're not native.
  • Their presence is detrimental to our existing native species.
  • The killing of squirrels is not marketed as entertainment/fun to my knowledge - it's presumably done by professionals only.
Show quote history

Agreed. Once people start going out hunting squirrels for fun then we can talk.

Octomore · 11/10/2022 12:17

Whenever I hear someone claiming that the big landowning estates are all about "land management" and "conservation", I think of images like this:

raptorpersecutionuk.org/

Octomore · 11/10/2022 12:21

67% of prosecutions are of gamekeepers. Who do you think gives them their orders?

This may not relate to deer 'culling', but it tells you a lot about the shooting industry, the attitude of landowners towards wildlife, and the veracity of the claims that their aim is conservation.

Prince William goes 'deer culling' in Balmoral
TheForestFloor · 11/10/2022 12:22

antelopevalley · 11/10/2022 12:13

Don't patronise us. We know the difference between culling and hunting for sport. Talk of fluffy tails just treats us as if we are thick.
I see what happens. The feeding of the deer to keep numbers high so there are enough to hunt. The hunting of stags rather than the old, sick or females that breed. The rich people coming up to Scotland to pay money to hunt stags.

Is this for me? At what point have I supported blood sports? I’ve mentioned feeding, please read all messages thoroughly before attacking others. Because that is the thing that will make you look ‘thick’.

TheForestFloor · 11/10/2022 12:23

Octomore · 11/10/2022 12:17

Whenever I hear someone claiming that the big landowning estates are all about "land management" and "conservation", I think of images like this:

raptorpersecutionuk.org/

Have you heard of Wild Justice? You might be interested in their campaign.

Octomore · 11/10/2022 12:24

No, but I'll look them up.

Alexandra2001 · 11/10/2022 12:26

TheForestFloor · 11/10/2022 12:05

People who are anti-culling may have never seen the destruction that can be caused. Imagine planting acres of woodland, then after about 12 years the grey squirrels come in an decimate the lot. They strip the bark, kill the trees and leave nothing but wasteland. This happens, more frequently that you might think. They’re cute with their fluffy tails but culling then is necessary. You cannot give them contraception because you cannot target them, plus in certain areas you’d end up with dead red squirrels too. Sometimes intervention prevents the death of so many more.

Well, why aren't the royals hunting squirrels then? say £750 a day, with a guaranteed photo in the 'Mail on Sunday?

Just imagine, Prince William, armed with his .22, standing over the bloodied corpse of a 'Grey....

No, they don't because its not about culling or limiting numbers and saving the forest, its about killing for killings sake.. i.e. pleasure.

Pine Martins have been used to control numbers and there is on going research into how to get contraception into GS feeders.

gnilliwdog · 11/10/2022 12:31

@Alexandra2001 Squirrel hunting just doesn't get the kudos, I suppose. Funny, I am told you can eat them and they are actually very tasty in a stew, if you like meat.

TheForestFloor · 11/10/2022 12:33

Alexandra2001 · 11/10/2022 12:26

Well, why aren't the royals hunting squirrels then? say £750 a day, with a guaranteed photo in the 'Mail on Sunday?

Just imagine, Prince William, armed with his .22, standing over the bloodied corpse of a 'Grey....

No, they don't because its not about culling or limiting numbers and saving the forest, its about killing for killings sake.. i.e. pleasure.

Pine Martins have been used to control numbers and there is on going research into how to get contraception into GS feeders.

Show quote history

@Alexandra2001
Prince Charles has culled grey squirrels. He has done it with his own hands, it happens on his estates and I know he been actively involved as he supports the reintroduction of red squirrels. I believe he is the charity’s patron.

I also haven’t mentioned the RF. I am not commenting on them. I have zero interest in them. I’m talking about wildlife management.

Contraceptives will NOT be suitable for grey squirrels. Most people working in red squirrel reintroduction agree with this and will not support it as a possibility, it’s way too risky.

greenhousegal · 11/10/2022 12:33

Jumping in here to say (if it hasn't already) that culling is often necessary for some breeds. However it should be undertaken by professionals and it should NEVER be a "sport" or "pastime" for those with more money than brains.

Those with blood on their hands cover it up with eco excuses. It is a job of work, not a means to get out in the fresh air. Tally their ho indeed, the RF need a good kicking for advertising culling as a pastime for those that can afford it, no matter that it might often be necessary.

I'm mightily sick at the hypocrisy of them all.

BeetleManiac · 11/10/2022 12:33

BigglyBee · 11/10/2022 10:14

We don't mention the feeding of deer in the winter to keep numbers higher so we can "cull" them in better weather

Is it better to leave animals to starve to death than to kill them quickly and humanely? Really? Of course the ideal is that the populations don't ever reach that level, but they have and I don't think that not feeding deer will help. Also, starving deer are more likely to find their way towards houses, and there are dangers in that.

It's not about simply letting deer starve in large numbers. Proper management would see numbers drastically reduced by culling the females, not trophy hunting of stags.

Deer numbers need to be brought down to a level that would allow forest regeneration, much lower than the current situation where large areas of forest have basically disappeared because no young trees can survive the pressure of so many deer and sheep.

Wolf and Lynx reintroduction would help as well - there is plenty of habitat and food available for both these species.

The problem with the whole sport shooting industry is that it requires high numbers of the target species to be profitable. Sport shooting is the cause of deer overpopulation, not the solution.

Scrowy · 11/10/2022 12:34

Octomore · 11/10/2022 11:36

Oh, and the shooting industry definitely doesn't want any reforestation. Trees block the sightlines for shooting.

There are other solutions here and other ways of managing excess deer these areas - but the shooting lobby has conned people into thinking that the current way is the only way.

Interestingly the game keepers I know spend most of their time these days shooting anything that moves to protect all the trees that have been planted by rich people for greenwashing. Trees on many big estates are now the primary priority.

It's mostly deer that are shot but also sheep if they stray into the planting areas and anything else that might be tempted to have a nibble.

It's a funny old world where gamekeepers are employed to protect trees.

It also demonstrates just how out of touch huge numbers of people are on this thread about the up to date realities of the countryside.

antelopevalley · 11/10/2022 12:37

BeetleManiac · 11/10/2022 12:33

It's not about simply letting deer starve in large numbers. Proper management would see numbers drastically reduced by culling the females, not trophy hunting of stags.

Deer numbers need to be brought down to a level that would allow forest regeneration, much lower than the current situation where large areas of forest have basically disappeared because no young trees can survive the pressure of so many deer and sheep.

Wolf and Lynx reintroduction would help as well - there is plenty of habitat and food available for both these species.

The problem with the whole sport shooting industry is that it requires high numbers of the target species to be profitable. Sport shooting is the cause of deer overpopulation, not the solution.

Show quote history

THIS
It is not a coincidence that if you look at firms you can pay to take you out shooting deer, they all talk about shooting stags and boast how many stags they shoot in a year. This is what people pay to shoot.

derxa · 11/10/2022 12:38

Scrowy · 11/10/2022 12:34

Interestingly the game keepers I know spend most of their time these days shooting anything that moves to protect all the trees that have been planted by rich people for greenwashing. Trees on many big estates are now the primary priority.

It's mostly deer that are shot but also sheep if they stray into the planting areas and anything else that might be tempted to have a nibble.

It's a funny old world where gamekeepers are employed to protect trees.

It also demonstrates just how out of touch huge numbers of people are on this thread about the up to date realities of the countryside.

Show quote history

👏

TheForestFloor · 11/10/2022 12:44

Wolf and Lynx reintroduction would help as well - there is plenty of habitat and food available for both these species.

Not for wolves in England. There might be in Scotland but not in England. Woodland cover would need to be extended and wildlife corridors implemented. The landscape isn’t right for wolves at current.