Prince William goes 'deer culling' in Balmoral

[vera99]

What's wrong with these people? I can maybe understand the need for occasional culling (though it is most often for the human agency not a concern for the animal) but to go out and enjoy stalking these magnificent creatures get them in the sights of your guns and kill them - that's just sick.

PS. King Charles was a big fan of fox hunting

AIBU? - Yes this is actual nature conservation activity and William is showing concern and leadership in participating in the shooting.

YANBU? - No this is a sick perverted hobby of the super-rich who glory in the pleasure killing of defenceless animals.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11300807/Prince-Wales-visits-Balmoral-goes-deer-stalking-Scotland-trip-Queens-funeral.html

"Deer stalking is the act of culling ageing stags that would otherwise die in the winter, with William shooting his first when he was 14 years old, something that is said to have left him delighted at the time.
The activity, which has been a shared passion among generations of the Royal Family, was encouraged by William's father King Charles III, while Princess Diana used to jokingly call him 'my killer Wales'.
William is not thought to have been joined in Scotland by his wife Catherine, who is herself a keen markswoman, and their children. A spokesman for Kensington Palace declined to comment."

An ethical viewpoint

I didn’t realise that Chris Packham, who is unsurprisingly vocal about hunting, had had a Land Rover Discovery firebombed outside his home. Could have been absolutely horrifying and tragic

Happenings related to this allegation are due in civil court where the defendants (who have named themselves the packham three) appear to be preparing a defence to argue that Chris Packham or someone associated with him had a hand in arranging this himself.

Certainly it doesn't seem to be straightforward.

Personally I shoot, have gundogs I work, love beating, support the game industry wholeheartedly and love a nice bit of pheasant/partridge/rabbit/venison/duck/ pigeonetc. my life is the countryside. I don't give a flying duck about gamebirds being reared and released, have you seen the conditions your supermarket meat lives in?! I care that people who shoot, no matter how rich they are, do do you the best of their ability and are a bloody good shot.
I was also a hunt groom for 20 years. Even I find it problematic these days as it has changed so much and I can't reconcile myself to some of the bad practice that now occurs.
But shooting? Love it. I am obviously going to hell.

How would you stop wolf numbers getting out of control?

How do you stop them attacking people and small children who live in the countryside as well as towns and cities?

It doesn’t really happen. Wolves don’t wander into towns and villages looking for children to gobble. Wolf related deaths are very very low, barely even one a year. The idea that wolves will be killing humans is media-based hype.

deaths from deer smashing into cars on the other hand….

The thread is about the RF trophy hunting deer.... not land management

Contraceptives are being looked at for Greys, using body weight to keep the Red's out.
The feeders are being worked upon, they may work?

www.birdguides.com/news/scientists-design-contraceptives-to-limit-grey-squirrels/#:~:text=The%20mass%20birth%20control%20plan,says%20environment%20minister%20Lord%20Benyon.

So what if he did a photo op on killing a Grey...

I'm assuming you're talking about wild wolf death statistics in another country @TheForestFloor? Just as the uk doesn't have any wild wolves anymore.

But what stops wolves from attacking people?

I also doubt they'd get the memo not to attack sheep or other livestock.

I though the best thing for Red Squirrels was to be in an area with Pine Martens?

I cant remember exactly what the rangers said but it was something to do with Pine Martens eating the berry's before they are ripe enough for Greys and the Reds eat are lighter than them both so can reach other branches or something!

Don’t be ridiculous, this thread is about land management. It’s about hunting, culling, the RF and land management. Please don’t attempt to be the thread police.

That’s interesting about the contraceptive - I’ll wait for the trails to be carried out before I comment, especially as I spoke to someone within red squirrel introduction only a few months back who said they wouldn’t be considering any contraceptives, but possibly this is different, we will have to await the outcome. In the meantime, culling will have to continue.

I don’t know why you’re so angry with me that you keep attacking me. I don’t want to comment on the RF so why you’re trying to goad me I have no idea. All I know is that Charles does and has participated in grey squirrel culling.

No interest in humans, but livestock will be a different matter. If the space is big enough then it will be fine, but as I say England is not equipped for wolves due to space and habitat issues.

And you’re right about pine martens and grey squirrels, the problem is they aren’t doing the reintroductions fast enough. It all has to work together.

If the space is big enough, define big enough?
And how do you stop a wolf population getting out of control?

Living in the countryside I know quite a few people who hunt grey squirrels for fun.

People drawing the distinction between gamekeepers culling deer and hunters shooting deer, what is the distinction exactly. Do you not think that gamekeepers get the same satisfaction out of a successful stalk and quick clean kill that a hunter does?

There's all sorts of animals and birds whose over representation harms the countryside. There have been bans on shooting crows, jays, magpies. The small birds are suffering as a result. We regularly have 6-8 magpies clattering round the garden, and this year's nesting season was a disaster for the small birds in the garden because of increasing numbers of jays and crows raiding nests.

You can see it starkly on agricultural land - fields of stubble containing thousands of crows.

Well you don’t, they naturally don’t get out of control in their native countries. They naturally limit themselves. It isn’t in their interest to have huge populations.

I’m not an expert, I don’t know wolf range ratios. But I do believe that England doesn’t have enough space or cover to house them.

With all these extra deer, squirrels and rabbits over running the country it seems odd so many people are going hungry in the UK.

But do remember that wolves once roamed Britain in balance with other species and humans. They don’t exist here now because we hunted them to extinction. Long before guns existed

Old and weak deer must be culled for the herd to survive. They do it every year in Richmond Park. I believe the meat goes to local butchers.

Wolves are not restricted to woodland by any means. They are a very adaptable species that can easily survive in a modern landscape. There are wolves living right across Europe, not just in remote areas. Illegal persecution is the main issue, not habitat.

They are as stable and they don’t just live in woodlands, of course not. But woodland is most suitable here due to the issue of current habitat fragmentation. We need wildlife corridors between suitable habitats.

They need to be culled sometimes, they're culling them this year in Finland. Can't let the population get too big or they cause too much damage and can end up coming too near populated areas if there's too many of them which is a danger.

It's more that Grey Squirrels don't seem to recognise Pine Martens very well as predators, plus they spend more time foraging on the ground than Reds, so they are more easily caught and eaten.

Grey Squirrels have virtually disappeared from large areas of Ireland where they used to be common, following natural recolonisation by Pine Martens. Red Squirrels have also returned to these areas.

I don't believe Scotland is big enough for wolves either. Hence asking for actual figures how big is big enough.
And how would you stop the population getting out of control?

Foxes and deer are everywhere and I'd think Wolves would be no different given time. Foxes have been known to attack babies.

How would you control wolf numbers and what stops them attacking people and sheep?

@Natsku thanks cross posted I thought that might be the case that wolf numbers are controlled in other countries.

Wolves are apex predators - their populations are regulated by food supply and territorial behaviour - they don't get 'out of control'. Historically the species has been heavily persecuted - 'wolf control' in other countries is just a continuation of this.

Genuine wolf attacks on humans are extremely rare - much less than other everyday threats which we happily accept, like the chance of being killed by your toaster. Way less than the chance of dying in a car accident. If wolves cause even a small reduction in deer numbers there would be fewer traffic accidents as well.

It’s very straightforward although there are those that would like you to believe it’s not. Are you one of them? 🤔
If you speak out about things like fox hunting, you’re a target, more so if you have a big platform. There’s plenty of others that have been targeted in similar ways to Chris, they’re just lesser known. Are they all doing it to themselves too? There are people that know exactly what’s happening in those cases and Chris’ case. Lots of people go very quiet. Funny that.

Yes, I think there was a story about a farmer who didn't allow the hunt on his land having a barn set on fire a few years back. The hunt isn't super popular round here, but that's also due to their dogs being in an appalling state.