Prince William goes 'deer culling' in Balmoral

[vera99]

What's wrong with these people? I can maybe understand the need for occasional culling (though it is most often for the human agency not a concern for the animal) but to go out and enjoy stalking these magnificent creatures get them in the sights of your guns and kill them - that's just sick.

PS. King Charles was a big fan of fox hunting

AIBU? - Yes this is actual nature conservation activity and William is showing concern and leadership in participating in the shooting.

YANBU? - No this is a sick perverted hobby of the super-rich who glory in the pleasure killing of defenceless animals.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11300807/Prince-Wales-visits-Balmoral-goes-deer-stalking-Scotland-trip-Queens-funeral.html

"Deer stalking is the act of culling ageing stags that would otherwise die in the winter, with William shooting his first when he was 14 years old, something that is said to have left him delighted at the time.
The activity, which has been a shared passion among generations of the Royal Family, was encouraged by William's father King Charles III, while Princess Diana used to jokingly call him 'my killer Wales'.
William is not thought to have been joined in Scotland by his wife Catherine, who is herself a keen markswoman, and their children. A spokesman for Kensington Palace declined to comment."

An ethical viewpoint

Yes, I think so. It is infuriating that this 'business' is being misrepresented as conservation.

Are they going to eat the stags ? If not then that's incredibly cruel.

@Kissingfrogs25

i can’t agree with you. The OPW manage the parks here in ireland, and have exactly the same issues ? They are not feeling the deer to cause overpopulation. The deer are wandering beyond the park borders into farmland, and a few dead eagles won’t sustain them.

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/esb-worker-sues-after-being-propelled-through-the-air-by-a-stag-1.4774097

This is where alternative land management strategies are needed. Deer populations do need to be reduced, yes. But by professionals, and the long term plan should be to reintroduce native predators and reforestation where that is achievable.

This is the 21st century, not the 19th!

Of course the meat’s going to be eaten. Venison is a delicacy, it’s also delicious.

Also, deer don't eat eagles??

@Octomore

a poster above was talking about the deer ‘eating carrion’

In the absence of a predator, some culling would always be necessary. (Hence need for predators.) But you're right, it is the business model.

A sensible cull would kill a fair few females - as they are the ones that can give birth. But the commercial shoots focus on the stags, as they've got the flashy antlers.

I talked about raptors eating carrion, not deer.

I don't know who mentioned deer eating carrion.

@Ohnonevermind , this thread definitely shows the split between "town" and "country" 🤣

I am in favour of humans butting out of nature and reducing their own impact mostly. But reintroducing predators and restoring a little of what we have destroyed might be good. Land ownership is also an issue, since it's a motivation to make money from the land.

@Ohnonevermind Nobody is against professional culling. We are against the sport of deer hunting. The sporting estates do often feed deer to keep numbers artificially high, and rich people hunt stags and female deer - but nothing to do with which deer need culled.

Personally I don’t see the difference between eating a cut of responsibly reared beef or some venison that has been shot by a rich tourist, as long as the shooting was overseen by an experienced ghillie. And the rich tourist will put some pounds in to the local economy.

YABU. It is a well-known element of responsible countryside management.

^^ I think it may have been this post that caused confusion.

No. I and others on this thread live in places where deer hunting happens. The difference is we are not rich.
The rich aristocrats defend this sport by trying to pull the wool over townies eyes. Culling and hunting stag for sport are two different things. William is hunting.
It was even claimed stag hunting season is over when that is demonstrably untrue. Aristocrats rely on plebs ignorance. Harder to maintain now the townies can speak on the internet to people who know about these things.

Some people do not see anything wrong with shooting animals for fun. But most people do.

@Octomore do you have any actual experience of what you are talking about though? Although I’ve let out many estates to stalkers for shooting, we never fed any deer and neither did the stalkers. It was a clear breach of our Country Stewardship Agreement. They still needed culling - per the agreement and it was all done within BASC guidelines. The money from the stalking and previous countryside stewardship agreement help to fund larger conservation works. Why would we want our newly planted woodland to be destroyed by purposefully feeding deer?

The only estate I’ve ever worked for that fed deer was one that had a completely fenced in 18th deer park with the original herd. They carried out a cull each year carried out by the gamekeeper who culled specific deer previously identified to ensure that the historic parkland didn’t suffer damage from overgrazing.

What part of they’re going to die anyway are you finding so difficult to get your head round?

@Blossomtoes So how we treat animals and how we kill them makes no difference as they are all going to die anyway?

And it is fine to keep the deer population artificially high so people can shoot them, by feeding them over winter?

And it is fine to shoot large stags for fun rather than the old and sick?

FYI , I also live in the country!
Never assume a fellow posters creed or location!

Upthread I linked a gamekeepers' magazine which openly stated that feeding wild red deer was common practice. Maybe that magazine was wrong? I've also seen deer feed in upland areas.

I live rurally, surrounded by grouse moors owned by one of the largest landowning estates, and I walk on them several times a week. I see the grouse feed with my own eyes. I also see (or rather don't see) the lack of raptors, despite the fact that they are plentiful elsewhere in this area.

I also live near an place where they release thousands and thousands of bred pheasants every year, for shooting.

The idea that shooting is a regrettable necessity done for conservation reasons is just bollocks. The types of shooting undertaken by the upper classes are done for fun, and there is an industry supporting it.

I have no actual objection to the shooting of animals where they are pests. E.g. farmers shooting rabbits. But I do object to turning into part of the entertainment industry and labelling it "conservation".

The lack of understanding here is why rewilding largely wont happen.

rewilding isn’t about reintroducing species and leaving them to it. It isn’t about letting your land overgrow with bracken and bramble, that isn’t rewilding. You still have to manage it. Humans have to do this because we don’t have the same numbers or species we used to where things would happen naturally.

Spaces need to be grazed in order for wildflowers to grow. This is imperative, it has to happen otherwise wildflowers will not be able to grow (yellow rattle will reduce this somewhat or you could scythe/mow). Woods need to be coppiced to allow light and warmth onto the woodland floor for flowers to grow, for invertebrates and birds and mammals to take advantage of up the food chain. Invasive species must be removed, they are strangling our native species that works in perfect balance.

Rewilding isn’t just shoving in animals and then leaving it, the land they live on and sometimes the species have to be managed. They HAVE
to be because nature is so unbalanced now that you can’t. Eventually in years to come maybe, but right now this has to happen.

We need to work in sync, multiple things need to happen to ensure the safe future of wildlife. We need long term in depth strategic planning. You can’t introduce apex predators right now because you would need multiple areas and wildflower corridors to ensure safe travel. It’s not feasible as it would take a seismic shift in societal attitudes. We are not there yet and I doubt we ever will be in the U.K. as it isn’t profitable.

People don’t realise what a mess nature is in. We are going to lose many more species very quickly and it will have a huge detrimental affect. We have to step in now and get a move on to make such changes. Deer culling is currently part of that. Ground nesting birds can be decimated by deer. Woodland habitats destroyed. We don’t have much of these things and we need to protect them. Yes deer are beautiful, but they cannot be allowed to dominate at the expense of other species.

People need to get their head out of the sand. The future is very precarious. When it comes to nature, I am terrified. It is very very bleak.

It will either be eaten by them or sold to a butchers.

Venison is lovely. I miss eating it - don't eat it as no one else in my house likes it and I'm not cooking it just for me

@Octomore You are absolutely right about game bird shooting. It should be outlawed that game birds can be fed and released. I do think they should still be culled and removed because of the damage they do, but breeding should be banned and the raptor persecution that happens is disgusting.

I have worked with estates and have not been aware of deer feeding. Deer need to be culled. If they are being fed in order to keep them alive for game season then this is obviously wrong. Some deer should be left to die naturally and even if you cull then some ultimately will. But there are too many to not intervene right now.