Prince William goes 'deer culling' in Balmoral

[vera99]

What's wrong with these people? I can maybe understand the need for occasional culling (though it is most often for the human agency not a concern for the animal) but to go out and enjoy stalking these magnificent creatures get them in the sights of your guns and kill them - that's just sick.

PS. King Charles was a big fan of fox hunting

AIBU? - Yes this is actual nature conservation activity and William is showing concern and leadership in participating in the shooting.

YANBU? - No this is a sick perverted hobby of the super-rich who glory in the pleasure killing of defenceless animals.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11300807/Prince-Wales-visits-Balmoral-goes-deer-stalking-Scotland-trip-Queens-funeral.html

"Deer stalking is the act of culling ageing stags that would otherwise die in the winter, with William shooting his first when he was 14 years old, something that is said to have left him delighted at the time.
The activity, which has been a shared passion among generations of the Royal Family, was encouraged by William's father King Charles III, while Princess Diana used to jokingly call him 'my killer Wales'.
William is not thought to have been joined in Scotland by his wife Catherine, who is herself a keen markswoman, and their children. A spokesman for Kensington Palace declined to comment."

An ethical viewpoint

In that quote I am arguing against feeding deer to keep them alive through the winter.

Artificially supporting an excessive population, so that the estate can make money from selling shooting rights

Have you even read the comments OP?

Deer culling is not comparable to fox hunting at all. I detest fox hunting but culling deer is absolutely necessary because population numbers very quickly get out of control. They over graze the countryside and destroy saplings leading to deforestation.

Also, unlike fox hunting, when a deer is killed it is eaten. It’s an extremely environmentally friendly way of eating meat - far better than modern farming practices.

Deer have no natural predators left as humans got rid of them all. So we've disrupted nature completely and are paying the consequences with the damage done to the land by over population of deer. So we either re-introduce a predator or reduce the numbers ourselves.

I love animals too, hate fox hunting but honestly some of the hyperbole and ignorance on here with regards to deer management needs correcting.

Large estates are the ones who manage the land they, ensure the management of the land that supports many other endangered species.

If estates did not manage peat land and responsible heather burning techniques, wild fires word be far more intense due to the build up of scrub and debris. This inturn causes deep heather burn that destroys everything from wildlife to regeneration of flora.

Which inturn causes peat degradation and massive loss of stored carbon into the atmosphere from weathering of bare peat and also pollutes our water catchment and caus s flooding down stream.

So are you going to ask the public to fund this then and who is going to manage it? You lack of understanding of land management is astounding.

I have addressed what I want to. If culling needs to be done, it should be done by experts. Not random people who fancy dressing up for a jolly and having a go. That’s the point.

If my child puts on a tiara and fancy dress, she has to accept that she’s not an actual princess and doesn’t get to go to the ball. My son likes running, he wouldn’t be the best person to represent Team GB at the Olympics. No one humours them and let’s them go along for the experience. My partner has a GCSE in Maths, if he puts on a business suit can he manage your accounts, I mean, his skills are elsewhere, but he’d so like to have a go at that accounting thing. How hard can it be.

Culling, necessary.
Royals taking part, not necessary. Pillocks

I can't agree with you OP, the unfortunate truth is that we've fucked ecosystems so much that we need to give nature a significant helping hand. As (unfortunately) we can't go back in time to make wiser choices, the only option left is to try and manage the situation.

I think there is a lot of confusion about the difference between hunting and stalking. I'm no expert, but AFAIK stalking is a painstaking process whereby the animal doesn't know they're being stalked until they're shot. It's a skill. Natural deaths for wild animals are not pretty, as ends go I think a lifetime roaming free and then a bullet to the head isn't a bad way to go if you're a deer.

I'm a vegetarian but I can't find a reason to object to this. I wouldn't eat the meat because I don't like it but it's much more ethical than farmed meat.

Whether Prince William getting involved is a wise move depends on his skill. I'm no royalist but if he's a skilled stalker, why shouldn't he get involved in managing the land on his estate.

Fox hunting and other blood sports are a completely different kettle of fish.

Thanks for all the interesting posts about rewilding/reintroduction of apex predators. I didn't know much about this so it's been an education. My uncle was involved in the project to reintroduce beavers 🦫 but I was too small to remember much about it.

And I don’t hate the Royals, I feel quite sorry for them really, it seems quite a sad life for many of them. But I think there is a place for them to do good in the world if they put there efforts elsewhere. Just stay away from pretending to be gamekeepers managing estates. It’s a job, not a sport to have a go at.

My grandfather was a gamekeeper as was my uncle and they both talked a lot about needing to control the number of deer. They were both skilled at stalking and killing deer. The meat was then butchered and eaten. We often ate venison as a result.

I still live relatively rurally and and have noticed the number of deer I see on my way to work is much higher than is usual at this time of year.

Deer culling is needed and is a part of land management. I am not a royalist however this just isn't something I can criticise them for.

That's pony racing !
Not hunting!

Royals (i.e. aristocratic amateurs) taking part is kind of integral to how the whole sport of shooting works.

Estates manage an overpopulation of deer because they make significant money from selling shooting rights to wealthy types who don't have their own deer/land to use.

The reason people are prepared to pay big money to stalk deer is because of the image - the aristocratic connection. People don't pay that kind of money to shoot rabbits on a farmers' land (which is much more justifiable as an activity IMO, because the farmers aren't deliberately feeding the rabbits!) because there's no aristocratic connection.

So people like the PoW and various dukes being involved (as opposed to just leaving ut to their gamekeepers) is part of what makes stalking a money-spinner for the estates.

Same goes for grouse shooting. If the aristos didn't do it, no one else would pay money to.

One issue is people pay big money to shoot on these estates which helps fund the estates and keep the gamekeepers employed in turn helping the local economy.

You stop the 'sport' element of it. That takes a chunk of money out the local economy. Would the wild deer herd be looked after as well without that money and only the money from the meat produced?

I’ve got no issues with professional gamekeepers shooting deer as a way of humanely keeping numbers down.

I find it repellent when tourists (incl royals) come and do it as a fun day out however.

Killing animals as a necessity part of your job is very different from killing animals as a form of entertainment IMO.

I appreciate it doesn’t look any different from the animal’s perspective, but I think it says something about the humans involved.

Yes agree.

And the poster who thinks that a clean instant death by bullet to the heart is worse than being chased and eaten while still alive is the "bonkers" one.

I was reading this thread this morning when it was in AIBU. How come it got moved without MNHQ commenting that they were moving it, as per their normal practice?

I’m enjoying reading it though, it’s been educational to me as this isn’t something I know much about.

THIS.
And then you get people who the Royal Family would not give the time of day to, spending their time defending them.

Your very lucky op , according to Google you have a Japanese red fox there!
Nice cactus too!

Totally agree.
I also think feeding wild deer to maintain numbers should be banned. It is to make sure there are enough deer that are easy for people paying to shoot and kill.

This is the kind of firm that rich people pay to hunt stags. This is not about shooting old and sick animals. It is not about population control - if you were doing that you shoot the females. It is about a sport popular with the rich.

scotsportuk.com/deer-hunting/sika-stag-hunting-scotland/

Culling, necessary. Royals taking part, not necessary. Pillocks

If it’s necessary what difference does it make who does it? Pillocks indeed, just not who you think they are.

The fact is that the shooting industry doesn't want us to consider what alternative ways of culling could be used.

The shooting industry doesn't want apex predators reintroduced.

The shooting industry doesn't want to reduce deer populations through natural means by not feeding the deer in a harsh winter.

The shooting industry doesn't want to stop breeding huge numbers of pheasants and then releasing them solely to be shot.

They're not interested in conservation/biodiversity and encouraging rare raptor populations in the vicinity of grouse moors. There is a lot of evidence (but few prosecutions sadly) that raptors are illegally poisoned and shot in these areas.

Because there is money in it. And the money is also dependent on people like the royal family being involved, because that gives it the cachet. My Billy Big Bucks tourist only wants to shoot deer because its what the royals and aristos do.

Plenty of those idiots I mentioned earlier, that grin inanely with their ‘prize’, in the photo gallery. 🙄

This thread has been interesting. I didn't know there were efforts to maintain deer population, such as feeding. That does make this look like the culling is not necessary, but is part of a business model?

Spot on

If you don’t understand the difference, explaining probably won’t help. It requires a couple of things that you appear not to have. .

Oh, and the shooting industry definitely doesn't want any reforestation. Trees block the sightlines for shooting.

There are other solutions here and other ways of managing excess deer these areas - but the shooting lobby has conned people into thinking that the current way is the only way.