Prince William goes 'deer culling' in Balmoral

[vera99]

What's wrong with these people? I can maybe understand the need for occasional culling (though it is most often for the human agency not a concern for the animal) but to go out and enjoy stalking these magnificent creatures get them in the sights of your guns and kill them - that's just sick.

PS. King Charles was a big fan of fox hunting

AIBU? - Yes this is actual nature conservation activity and William is showing concern and leadership in participating in the shooting.

YANBU? - No this is a sick perverted hobby of the super-rich who glory in the pleasure killing of defenceless animals.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11300807/Prince-Wales-visits-Balmoral-goes-deer-stalking-Scotland-trip-Queens-funeral.html

"Deer stalking is the act of culling ageing stags that would otherwise die in the winter, with William shooting his first when he was 14 years old, something that is said to have left him delighted at the time.
The activity, which has been a shared passion among generations of the Royal Family, was encouraged by William's father King Charles III, while Princess Diana used to jokingly call him 'my killer Wales'.
William is not thought to have been joined in Scotland by his wife Catherine, who is herself a keen markswoman, and their children. A spokesman for Kensington Palace declined to comment."

An ethical viewpoint

That is what I witnessed as a younger person, when I thought culling was ''Cruel''.
The deer were crept up upon while browsing a tree or tussocky grass, he would be chosen in advance, and the shot takes them down immediately.

The deer weren't chased.

A human can't really 'Chase' a deer , the deer are far too swift.

He's not a professional deer stalker, no.

And how long is it since he was in the army?

It’s an unavoidable fact of life that wherever you have livestock, whether that be sheep, cattle, or deer, you will have dead stock. Personally I would far rather eat venison that had been stalked expertly and shot cleanly than supermarket meat.

Deer populations that are not controlled do a lot of serious damage to trees and their environment and the people who cull them are managing that natural balance. And people always have this Disney idea of animals living freely until their old age well sorry nature isn’t like that and old age for a wild animal can be pretty brutal. In an un culled herd elderly animals will be competing with young bIckes for ever diminishing resources, possibly dragging an injury, it’s not a pretty death usually.

And it seems to be beyond the realms of some people’s imaginations that gamekeepers, and people who are serious about stalking and shooting, who are immersed in their natural surroundings all day every day, and are knowledgeable about their local environments and the herds that live on them, are not bloodthirsty scalp hunters who enjoy killing for killing’s sake, but are interested in perfecting an age old survival skill and becoming extremely adept at it. Respect for, and knowledge of, the animal you are stalking is integral to that.

And by the way, as a realist, I know that allowing some carefully regulated commercial stalking to exist, counter intuitively, actually protects the deer overall because money is being invested in deer herds and their natural environments.

Townies of Mumsnet are gonna townie. Seriously we need controlled killing of deer. I live near an arable farm and deer are culled to protect the crops I assume these people complaining haven't seen the destruction deer cause. Even vegans need deer culling to protect their food. Also the food has lived a fresh and free life and a clean shot to the heart of a deer is much less stressful and better for the environment than vegan protein sources or killing in an abattoir.

Introducing predators would not be popular in the countryside because it is much easier for a predator to take a farm animal than it is for them to take an agile wild deer. I you were a wolf, would you choose to attack a slow-moving sheep or a fast-moving deer? There are no sheep (or farmers) in Yellowstone!
I really don't think people posting on here have any idea of the practicalities of introducing wolves or other predators.

Let me unpick this for you, yes I agree re wilding I do support. But the simple fact due to habitat fragmentation and public perception and views this will never fully happen until humans are gone.

So what do we do in the mean time we manage species. As for reforestation and people who say plant trees just show how little they understand about our natural environment and UK biodiversity. Woodlands only support certain species and would be disastrous for many habitat types eg peatland, raised bogs ect. So again your lack of understanding of habitat management shines through.

Where do you get your info from?

www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/media/90/Feeding%20Wild%20Deer.pdf

"Feeding wild deer is not a new idea. In the Highlands and Islands, the stalkers have been feeding wild red deer for decades."

This Hunt on horses has absolutely nothing to do with deer stalking do you think people career about on horses to cull deer???

It’s not the enjoyment of killing though. The enjoyment comes in tracking and stalking an animal skilfully. Death is present anyway where any kind of live stock is present.

Not all army officers are trained marksmen, it’s a specialist skill.

So what do we do in the mean time we manage species.

Culling, but by professional gamekeepers only.

Completely stop selling shooting rights, because that removes the incentive for estates to take measures which artificially support an overpopulation.

Deer (and other animals) dying in a hard winter is natural. Let it happen.

This. That clean shot to the head of a deer that will shortly die anyway is no different to the vet sliding a needle into a dog or cat’s paw. I’m assuming (without RTFT) all the outrage is not entirely unconnected with the cull being carried out by the heir to the throne. Mr McDonald, the estate manager, would presumably be considered less “cruel”.

Deer (and other animals) dying in a hard winter is natural. Let it happen.
Seriously? You think it's any better to starve to death?

Townies of Mumsnet are gonna townie.

Royals are gonna ..........live completely fake lives where they pretend to be gamekeepers managing estates. 😅 Along with many rich people that like to pretend to be something they’re not, they get themselves kitted out in all the gear and kid themselves they’re something they’re not. The royals are experts at wearing uniform they haven’t really earned so we shouldn’t be surprised.

Most of Scotland used to be forest. That is its natural state, and supports far greater biodiversity than the current state of affairs.

Bogs are now dominant across much of the highlands - this has come about through centuries of human intervention. It's not the natural state of the land.

There will always be places for peatland, bogs etc, noone is arguing to eradicate them, but the way land is managed currently is horrific. The UK is one of the most ecologically impoverished countries in Europe.

You don’t know much about the sport of shooting if you believe this. The animals need culling and the point is to cause as little distress and bloodshed as possible. It is massively frowned upon if you miss and cause an animal unnecessary distress.

would you care to address ANY of the points raised in this thread missingnashville. or is it all about the royal family for you?
This thread is a crazy combination of posters talking about the ethics of culling deer and posters who want to take a pop at the royal family. Why don't the latter lot just start a thread saying 'I hate the Royal Family - AIBU'? Because there are a lot of posters on here who aren't interesting in discussing culling.

Vera99 You are not being unreasonable.

The irony is, that if these huge Scottish (so call managed) hunting estates didn't exist in the first place, there would not be such a deer over population problem there.

My own ancestors and many other native Scottish people were removed AKA forcibly evited at great personal cost from their highland homes in the 19th century. Just so the area could become a huge enclosed free from predator's deer and grouse breeding pleasure estate/area for the privileged few.

I should also like to highlight the fact, that dictionary definition of "stalking deer" does not mention deer population control at all but defines it as the steady pursuit of a deer to kill for meat or for leisure or a trophy.
So as Prince William, is I'm sure neither starving to death, has plenty of other more fulfilling and humane pursuits available to him (even to commemorate his grandmothers life) and with more material goods than the average person could wish for. The hunting of deer for pleasure by him, should not be considered a necessary evil that some are claiming it is.

Deer (and other animals) dying in a hard winter is natural. Let it happen.

But it's not that simple is it nature in the UK is surviving in a semi natural environment impacted by human activity. So by claiming it should suffer naturally in a semi natural environment goes against your so called beliefs. The UK has no pure wild natural environments.

In their natural environment predators would feed off the sick injured and dieing I winter to survive and it would be a far faster death. What you are saying is let them all suffer.

We allow this to happen with pretty much every wild animal. Why are deer different? A dead deer will feed an eagle or other carnivore/carrion feeder.

Humans don't, and shouldn't, take it upon themselves to keep alive and then humanely kill every living thing on the planet.

If the large shooting estates are so caring, do they also leave out carrion to support raptor populations over the harsh winters? No need to answer - we all know that the large shooting estates are among the worst for raptor persecution.

Let's face it. Human 'management' of the planet has been disastrous. Farming has had a terrible effect on biodiversity. All the waffle about managing species and conservation is just the usual short sighted hubris. We are out of balance.

Humans rightly or wrongly have specific rights in law. Deer culling takes out the weakest and injured deer the one I shot once had its guts already hanging out after a rutting injury. You can't expect to stand outside of a care home or hospital and practice herd health management of humans in quite the same way. Btw I do think humans are a problem hence why I judge those families with more than two children making the issues worse.

Yes!

@Kissingfrogs25 Here in the country shoots whether pheasant or deer - hunting etc it all rolls into the same thing.

It really isn't the same thing. You are just embarrassing yourself now. You haven't a clue.

Clearly they do. There's so much ignorance being displayed on this thread.

Oh and from an ethical point of view if you're going to eat meat culled wild venison is as good it gets.