'Courtiers' by Valentine Low

[RandomPenguinHouse]

Extracts of this were being discussed on a previous thread ('The Times) which just finished.

I'm interested in buying this book, despite never having ever bought any other book about the Royal Family and never having watched The Crown.

I'm interested however in the archaic rituals of the Royal Court and how it works as an employer, and also how the courtiers advise.

Yes the excerpts were focused on Harry and Meghan but presumably that's just for clicks given the relevant timing, and that the book goes well beyond that.

Poignant that in the synopsis for it on The Foyles website it says:

The Queen, after a remarkable 70 years of service, is entering the final seasons of her reign without her husband Philip to guide her. Meanwhile, Charles seeks to define what his future as King will be, with his court wielding ever greater influence as he plans for his imminent accession.

www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/courtiers,valentine-low-9781472290908

Anyone else thinking of buying this?

Sophie and Sarah Ferguson both made huge gaffes and were reprimanded I imagine. They didn’t feel the need to turn traitor. Camilla has certainly had her fair share of humiliation. I think all three were able to take it on board and change. Meghan is very emotionally immature I think.

I doubt Meghan felt 'Embarrassed' , probably pouted throughout the Queen's dressing ~down, and argued back, then whinged huffily to Harry about her ''Mis~treatment''.

@IcedPurple To be clear, I didn't mean the rules re freebies were anal or archaic, they're neither - they're important, reasonable and understandable.

I was cutting Meghan some slack. I have always thought that they both wanted to live overseas as soon as possible however. I think that was the plan from the beginning. And if things had gone differently, they might well have been able to have a quasi-royal arrangement that worked for them.

Camilla received tons of flak by the press and public alike.
She was absolutely slaughtered, as was Sarah, with extremely cruel headlines , but they bore it stoically, without fuss, and now have acceptance.
Camilla especially , with the hacked conversations between her and Prince Charles..
Imagine how ghastly that must have been.

In one of the Times pieces it gives a comment that MM gave PH exactly what he wanted and needed as he had been so unhappy for some time - a way out of the RF.

He isn’t “needed” and if his MH is fragile and the RF too much pressure then go and lead a peaceful and gentle life …. but I think it is frying pan to fire as his job now is potentially x1000 in the media spotlight and the costly high maintenance lifestyle they have set up will be costly to maintain.

I'd argue he very much was 'needed' the of the current Working Royals only William and Kate are under 60.

The issue isn't so much now, but give it 10 years, they all start to slow down, George will be barely 18, little time for him to get any life experience, uni, military or anything else before he's pushed to be a full-time royal.

But I just can't see how Meghan can make a come back.
The PR machine would be able to 're work' Harry's image but I just don't think they could rework Meghans

I think that Kate's obvious dislike of Meghan comes down to something more visceral and maternal.
By H&M withdrawing from the RF has left a void that only her children can fill.
Previous to this I'd have expected to see far less of the children.
We used to see a carefully curated image of them at milestones throughout their child hood, but more recently G,C & L have been centre stage, far far earlier than had been planned.
As a mother that would be enough to cause me reason to feel rage.
K&W children have lost some of their childhood by H&M's actions.

In one of the Times pieces it gives a comment that MM gave PH exactly what he wanted and needed as he had been so unhappy for some time - a way out of the RF

I think this is valid. I know he was privileged but it is a gilded cage, as so many posters have said. The super fans who are frankly frighteningly stalkerish; the royalists who have this fantasy in their heads about who you are and woe betide you if you don’t play along with the fantasy; the anti-monarchists who hate and abuse you just because you exist; and most of all the awful awful media, alternately fawning and slagging off, expecting you to play nice to their faces while they’re writing shit about you.

I don’t blame him for wanting out.

I do blame him (and her) for being so shitty to his own family in the process.

This is a good point. It kind of makes me uncomfortable in a way, seeing them so much over this past year. Whatever your views on monarchy they should get as much of a private childhood as they can. I feel this about celebrity children too.

I had forgotten about the earring debacle. What strikes me is the hypocrisy with the right-on types. Why on earth would M want to wear earrings from MBS? If it had been the other way round with the Palace saying she must wear them as they were a gift we’d have never heard the end of it.

Harry could have had time out of the RF if he wanted. He just needed to find a suitable role, work with DoE awards, or any other RF initiative.
Why did he leave the Army so soon?

William had time with air ambulance. Andrew did 22 years in the navy.

I do think they need to bring in someone a bit younger, either Louise or the Yorks. The pressure will be on George from early adulthood, whereas William was able to do a few other things in his 20s and early 30s.
I don't see a scenario where Meghan could ever represent the BRF again.

Bringing in cousins is what Charles has been trying to avoid for years. That said he's put Bea on the Councillors of State? is that the right expression the 4 people who can stand in for the Monarch.

Placemarking to read the excerpts tomorrow - am stuck in Florida dodging the hurricane

I think Bea and Edo could fill the void, though I know not many share my opinion she seems a very warm and pleasant woman, he adds a bit of European sophistication, and seems to enjoy royal life, but unfortunately she is tainted by the sins of the parents which I think is really unfair on her so I don’t think it will ever happen.

American here. I think King Charles always meant Harry and Harry's wife to be part of the streamlined group of Working Royals. I wonder if the problem was that Harry's children (present and future) were not included in the future plan. Other members of the royal family seem to marry very wealthy people, maybe there's no other way to maintain that lifestyle and pay for the security needs and such.

I feel bad for Meghan, I don't think she understood what she was getting into. Her whole story about going to meet HMQ and being flabbergasted that the Queen's grandkids actually curtesy to her, even in private, I think that is a good example of how Meghan probably didn't understand how the Royal Family works. Being a member of their family must be very strange: the aura of massive inherited wealth, access to all these fabulous jewels, the expectation of being extremely well-dressed when on official business, the fame, but at the same time, you have to live in drafty old houses where you can't just dip into your savings to upgrade the plumbing or fix the creaky floor, and you have to follow all sorts of onerous rules of etiquette that only apply to the RF. Your father-in-law is your boss and, one day, your brother-in-law might get a veto on who your firstborn child marries, depending on who's in line for the throne at the time. And as an American, reading about Meghan's situation, it does rather sound like the hierarchy in the Royal Family has a profound effect on their lives. For example I remember reading about when Kate married William, HMQ changed the order of precedence so Kate would have to curtesy to the blood princesses. That wouldn't have happened if the order of precedence didn't actually have material effects in their personal lives.

So I do rather understand why Meghan was so unhappy.

At the same time, I can also understand why the RF are worried about having private conversations with her or PH without lawyers present. It must be true, not only for them but for many high profile people, that relationships can only be close when there's an understanding that everyone will be discreet and not be talking about private conversations in public.

Why did he leave the Army so soon?

Because he didn't have a degree and didn't want/wasn't able to complete the in house "education" courses that he needed to be able to progress. His next job would have needed to be a Staff/Desk/admin position, that's just how it works. He was kind of at a crossroads in his army career, where he'd need to really buckle down if he was going to make a life long career of it. Apparently senior officers were also a bit fed up with him telling them he was going off to do official royal duties only to be photographed or seen doing other rather more fun stuff, like being pissed in nightclubs.

I thought it was to do with security? He could have stayed in an admin role but he didn’t want that. He wanted to be in the field. His location was given away by the foreign press and then he had to go hime because it compromised his fellow soldiers. I’ve never heard it was to do with further training that he would have failed. It was all about security issues.

He didn’t have any Royal events he had to attend as he wasn’t a working Royal. He stayed in Afghanistan for Xmas one year. To give him his due, he seemed to be perfectly fitted for a military life and was good at it. He was always going to be a target security wise and that was the main issue. Probably one of the reasons he started to loathe being a Royal because it scuppered his career in the Army.

I thought it was to do with security? He could have stayed in an admin role but he didn’t want that. He wanted to be in the field. His location was given away by the foreign press and then he had to go hime because it compromised his fellow soldiers. I’ve never heard it was to do with further training that he would have failed. It was all about security issues.

I'm sure it was that too but he definitely needed a degree and further education to progress at that point in his career. He didn't have the option to stay in without that.

I do feel sorry for him in that respect

My own Dad was a non commissioned officer. To move up the ranks he periodically had to do formal in house education courses - loosely A level equivalent, to prove he was fit to do so and be in command of other soldiers. If he didn't pass he wouldn't/couldn't have been promoted.

He didn’t have any Royal events he had to attend as he wasn’t a working Royal.

He definitely did. Take a look at his Wikipedia page for a list of all the trips and duties he was involved in during his army career.

What role would he have done though? He could have stayed at the level he was at. I don’t think he needed a degree after attending Sandhust, but people more in the know will be able to say. He was already an Officer. Promotion isn’t obligatory.

Maybe it was a combination of factors. I'm probably unfairly comparing him to Andrew who did 22 years in the Navy. I actually never realised how long Andrew was in the navy until recently.

Promotion isn’t obligatory.

What's the point in staying in then? Why would his regiment want an eternal Captain, stagnating in the same role? Soldiers and officers actually have jobs they have to do during peacetime. They're not just waiting around to go and fight. The whole point is progression and he needed further in house education to do that.

I'm sure. Maybe he just had enough at that point because he could never fully have the career he wanted even if he did do all the courses, because of royal restrictions etc. A lot of people get out at the 10 year point. It's definitely a turning point and a good time to go if you're not really moving forward.