Page 5 | Republicans are getting arrested

HairyKitty · 13/09/2022 08:19

I see double standards here from republicans. There are many circumstances nowadays where insensitive speech or demonstrations are a criminal offence, this isn’t because the state is cracking down on people who aren’t in favour of the monarchy. Eg hold up a similar sign at a Remembrance Day parade and you can expect to be arrested.

Roussette · 13/09/2022 08:20

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 13/09/2022 08:13

It's pretty terrifying actually. You don't know what right to protest you have until you try and exercise it. Seemingly we have much less right than we think.

I'm sure I read that a man was threatened with arrest for holding up a blank sign.

Yes, indeed. Back on my first posts on this thread, I linked the footage of the police talking to him.
He was holding up a blank piece of paper

I then followed it up with what happened in Russia with a man being dragged off by numerous police for holding up a blank piece of paper

Roussette · 13/09/2022 08:21

HairyKitty · 13/09/2022 08:19

I see double standards here from republicans. There are many circumstances nowadays where insensitive speech or demonstrations are a criminal offence, this isn’t because the state is cracking down on people who aren’t in favour of the monarchy. Eg hold up a similar sign at a Remembrance Day parade and you can expect to be arrested.

And being surrounded by Police for holding up a blank piece of paper?

Discovereads · 13/09/2022 08:23

Precipice · 13/09/2022 00:21

"You’re not being forced to mourn because a football game is being postponed so as to allow all the fans who want to mourn the opportunity to do so." Can these poor fans who'd apparently like to mourn not exercise their own free will and choose not to attend? They have to be helped to do so by cancelling all temptations to do anything else?

It’s more that the football association as employers of the football players don’t want to force the football players to work when they might want to go to the funeral. Football players are people too, they’re not just there for your entertainment.

LovingTheseAutumnSnippets · 13/09/2022 08:24

Wow. And Republicans are the nasties! Do you use violence against everyone who expresses an opinion you don't like?

No, I wouldn’t. Generally I’m not against protests. However I draw the line at someone shouting abuse at and holding signs at a funeral procession, especially someone as respected as our queen.

Protesters rights. What about the right to be laid to rest in peace?

Roussette · 13/09/2022 08:29

That man should not have shouted that out when the funeral procession was passing.

But to say the general public should've spat in his face is really awful. Not everyone is a royalist you know. People are allowed different opinions. But I will repeat, wrong time wrong place for him to shout that.

If he'd shouted it not during the procession, should the public still spit in his face?

charliee112 · 13/09/2022 08:30

carmenitapink · 12/09/2022 20:05

I find it ridiculous that the media mocks North Korea for forcing its citizens to mourn their leaders death, yet we are being made to do the same.

To top it off, there have been numerous arrests of people protesting the monarchy - which is perfectly within their right to do so, especially if you believe in democracy and only having elected leaders.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/12/republican-britain-why-are-people-getting-arrested

I liked and respected the Queen, but don't like the rest of the royal family and find the idea that they have the "divine" right to rule frankly ridiculous in this day and age. What is Britain becoming when people don't have the free speech to protest about it?!

Whose being forced and how?

walkingonsunshinekat · 13/09/2022 08:35

charliee112 · 13/09/2022 08:30

Whose being forced and how?

Show quote history

24/7 news coverage blanking out all else going on here and else where, wall to wall sad music, stating all these multiple days of public mourning.

Control is a better description than force.

Thankfully, most people are ignoring it, pubs busy, bands still playing halls and clubs.... few in RL is talking about it & there has been some pretty sick jokes pinged around on SM.

Discovereads · 13/09/2022 08:37

Roussette · 13/09/2022 08:20

Yes, indeed. Back on my first posts on this thread, I linked the footage of the police talking to him.
He was holding up a blank piece of paper

I then followed it up with what happened in Russia with a man being dragged off by numerous police for holding up a blank piece of paper

Show quote history

No, he wasn’t holding up a blank piece of paper. He had a blank piece of paper and was preparing to write on it.

I watched the 42 second video you posted. It starts in the middle of a conversation, so it’s not known whether the police approached him or he approached the police. But he’s not holding up a blank piece of paper, he’s standing there with one and a pen and is getting ready to write on it.

It starts with the police asking for his details because they thought he’d said he’d been arrested already and they wanted to check the conditions of his bail as to whether he is even allowed to be there or not.

He says, no I said other people have been arrested. They said fine, now we’ve cleared that up they then asked him about his piece of paper saying “You’ve said you’re going to write something on it that may offend people” the man cuts in saying “I’m going to write not my king on it”. Then there’s a bit of an argument over whether this is offensive or not.

But no evidence the man was silently protesting by holding up a blank piece of paper….

twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1569360539611963394

carefullycourageous · 13/09/2022 08:38

Discovereads · 13/09/2022 08:17

If people can't hold a sign then we are not a democracy.

“Holding a sign” has fuck all to do with being in a democracy. Hell, you can be in a democracy and have slaves. You can be in a democracy with no rights for women. You can be in a democracy while your government/military is genociding a minority ethnicity or another country. A democracy only means that political power is held by elected leaders. Who gets to stand for election and who gets to vote can be as restricted or as universal as possible.

Democracies involve more than just elections, they encompass civil liberties “Holding a sign” has fuck all to do with being in a democracy It has a great deal to do with democracy

Hell, you can be in a democracy and have slaves No you can't under modern assessment
You can be in a democracy with no rights for women No you can't under modern assessment

You can be in a democracy while your government/military is genociding a minority ethnicity No you can't or another country This is not relevant to democracy in the home country so out of scope

A democracy only means that political power is held by elected leaders. Who gets to stand for election and who gets to vote can be as restricted or as universal as possible. If it restricted to an extent that is not justifiable (for example it is normal to have restrictions on whether foreign nationals can stand for office or vote) then it is not a democracy.

You can be in a 'democracy' as in someone can use the word, but that does not mean it is a democracy. I can call myself a cat, it doesn't make it true.

If you can't hold up a sign saying 'not my King', you have serious civil liberties issues in your country.

Discovereads · 13/09/2022 08:41

carefullycourageous · 13/09/2022 08:38

Democracies involve more than just elections, they encompass civil liberties “Holding a sign” has fuck all to do with being in a democracy It has a great deal to do with democracy

Hell, you can be in a democracy and have slaves No you can't under modern assessment
You can be in a democracy with no rights for women No you can't under modern assessment

You can be in a democracy while your government/military is genociding a minority ethnicity No you can't or another country This is not relevant to democracy in the home country so out of scope

A democracy only means that political power is held by elected leaders. Who gets to stand for election and who gets to vote can be as restricted or as universal as possible. If it restricted to an extent that is not justifiable (for example it is normal to have restrictions on whether foreign nationals can stand for office or vote) then it is not a democracy.

You can be in a 'democracy' as in someone can use the word, but that does not mean it is a democracy. I can call myself a cat, it doesn't make it true.

If you can't hold up a sign saying 'not my King', you have serious civil liberties issues in your country.

Show quote history

You obviously (mistakenly) think “democracy” means more than it actually means. Democracy is completely separate from suffrage or human rights or civil liberties.

Kissingfrogs25 · 13/09/2022 08:41

It is absolutely obscene to start protesting at someone's funeral. Obscene!

You can protest wherever you like, but not when everyone around you is grieving. It is beyond disgusting to even consider doing so. I would imagine the protesters will be attacked and there would be serious violence. You can not expect mourners to tolerate such disrespect.

I am glad the protesters are being removed. It is not acceptable at this moment in time when the Queen has just died, and I fully support the police and their actions.

Roussette · 13/09/2022 08:42

Discovereads · 13/09/2022 08:37

No, he wasn’t holding up a blank piece of paper. He had a blank piece of paper and was preparing to write on it.

I watched the 42 second video you posted. It starts in the middle of a conversation, so it’s not known whether the police approached him or he approached the police. But he’s not holding up a blank piece of paper, he’s standing there with one and a pen and is getting ready to write on it.

It starts with the police asking for his details because they thought he’d said he’d been arrested already and they wanted to check the conditions of his bail as to whether he is even allowed to be there or not.

He says, no I said other people have been arrested. They said fine, now we’ve cleared that up they then asked him about his piece of paper saying “You’ve said you’re going to write something on it that may offend people” the man cuts in saying “I’m going to write not my king on it”. Then there’s a bit of an argument over whether this is offensive or not.

But no evidence the man was silently protesting by holding up a blank piece of paper….

twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1569360539611963394

Show quote history

Ahhhh that makes it OK then. No pens. No blank pieces of paper.

carefullycourageous · 13/09/2022 08:43

HairyKitty · 13/09/2022 08:19

I see double standards here from republicans. There are many circumstances nowadays where insensitive speech or demonstrations are a criminal offence, this isn’t because the state is cracking down on people who aren’t in favour of the monarchy. Eg hold up a similar sign at a Remembrance Day parade and you can expect to be arrested.

You should not be arrested at a Remembrance Day parade for holding up a sign that has no illegal content.

Topseyt123 · 13/09/2022 08:43

Discovereads · 12/09/2022 22:24

No one is being forced to mourn the Queen or attend any of the ceremonies for the new King. Not one single person is forced to go, or watch it, or read about it.

But your rights end where others rights begin. Everyone also has the right to mourn the Queen and attend ceremonies for the new King without fear of harassment from hecklers and so-called protesters.

If you don’t agree with the monarchy, don’t go to the events. Write your MP…it’s Parliament who rule the country. They chopped off one Kings head, they’re the only ones that can abolish it if that’s what you really want. Sit outside Parliament with your picket signs.

But the right to protest doesn’t mean you have a right to heckle and hold up obscene signs harassing other people, your equals, who wish to mourn the Queen or pay respects to the new King during those public ceremonies. I think arresting such people is the correct thing to do as it is a breach of the peace and an affront to public order.

Totally agree with this.

MillyWithaY · 13/09/2022 08:44

walkingonsunshinekat · 13/09/2022 08:35

24/7 news coverage blanking out all else going on here and else where, wall to wall sad music, stating all these multiple days of public mourning.

Control is a better description than force.

Thankfully, most people are ignoring it, pubs busy, bands still playing halls and clubs.... few in RL is talking about it & there has been some pretty sick jokes pinged around on SM.

Show quote history

So not being controlled then?

C8H10N4O2 · 13/09/2022 08:45

Kissingfrogs25 · 13/09/2022 08:41

It is absolutely obscene to start protesting at someone's funeral. Obscene!

You can protest wherever you like, but not when everyone around you is grieving. It is beyond disgusting to even consider doing so. I would imagine the protesters will be attacked and there would be serious violence. You can not expect mourners to tolerate such disrespect.

I am glad the protesters are being removed. It is not acceptable at this moment in time when the Queen has just died, and I fully support the police and their actions.

The funeral is next Monday. Most of the "protestors" arrested have been silent or at least peaceful and at the proclamations (where its entirely the logical place) or other places away from the main events.

As for Andrew - well as PP say, when criminals attend their family funerals they don't also demand the right to march down the road in public and on TV in a desperate attempt to reclaim their former, very privileged positions.

If dissent is only allowed when its convenient or nobody can see it then we don't have the right to dissent.

Roussette · 13/09/2022 08:46

But the right to protest doesn’t mean you have a right to heckle and hold up obscene signs harassing other people, your equals, who wish to mourn the Queen or pay respects to the new King during those public ceremonies

Is a sign saying "Not My King" obscene?

This is an unelected person there by being born into a family. Why shouldn't people be allowed to express an opinion?

If this was the PM, the right answer would be... write to your PM then, canvass for your local party of choice, make sure you vote and everyone you know does.
This is a no choice situation

carefullycourageous · 13/09/2022 08:46

Discovereads · 13/09/2022 08:41

You obviously (mistakenly) think “democracy” means more than it actually means. Democracy is completely separate from suffrage or human rights or civil liberties.

Show quote history

You obviously (mistakenly) think 'democracy' means less than it actually means, but there we go. Each of us is allowed to be wrong

Husbandworries · 13/09/2022 08:46

Discovereads · 12/09/2022 22:24

No one is being forced to mourn the Queen or attend any of the ceremonies for the new King. Not one single person is forced to go, or watch it, or read about it.

But your rights end where others rights begin. Everyone also has the right to mourn the Queen and attend ceremonies for the new King without fear of harassment from hecklers and so-called protesters.

If you don’t agree with the monarchy, don’t go to the events. Write your MP…it’s Parliament who rule the country. They chopped off one Kings head, they’re the only ones that can abolish it if that’s what you really want. Sit outside Parliament with your picket signs.

But the right to protest doesn’t mean you have a right to heckle and hold up obscene signs harassing other people, your equals, who wish to mourn the Queen or pay respects to the new King during those public ceremonies. I think arresting such people is the correct thing to do as it is a breach of the peace and an affront to public order.

Exactly this

carefullycourageous · 13/09/2022 08:48

But the right to protest doesn’t mean you have a right to heckle and hold up obscene signs harassing other people, your equals, who wish to mourn the Queen or pay respects to the new King during those public ceremonies. I think arresting such people is the correct thing to do as it is a breach of the peace and an affront to public order.

This is complete bollocks WRT the person siliently holding a sign saying 'Not my King'. That person should have been left alone IMO.

Wouldloveanother · 13/09/2022 08:49

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 12/09/2022 22:07

There's a time and a place to protest. Those aren't it.

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No, there isn’t, that’s the point - we should be free to do it wherever and whenever we feel necessary, as long as it is non-violent.

Discovereads · 13/09/2022 08:55

Roussette · 13/09/2022 08:42

Ahhhh that makes it OK then. No pens. No blank pieces of paper.

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What’s not ok is you making up shit to suit your narrative when the video clearly shows that’s not what happened. You can believe I’m going to follow every link you post because you can’t be trusted to post what the link actually shows.

Kissingfrogs25 · 13/09/2022 08:55

Wouldloveanother · 13/09/2022 08:49

No, there isn’t, that’s the point - we should be free to do it wherever and whenever we feel necessary, as long as it is non-violent.

Show quote history

Well you are NOT free to do as you like!

If the Queen's hearse is passing and people are there gathered paying their last respects and crying of course it is entirely unreasonable to start a fucking protest. You can not do this to a fellow human being, and show such little compassion and empathy for them regardless of how you feel about the royal family. It is utterly disrespectful.

Take your protest to BP after she is buried at least! Jesus Christ.

HairyKitty · 13/09/2022 08:55

I think its likely that someone holding up a sign saying “not my fight and not my dead soldiers” at a remembrance parade (rightly) has a likelihood of being arrested for a public order offence. In the context of a remembrance parade it is offensive, in another context it is not.

Similarly these signs etc at the time of the deceased monarch passing by is of course offensive to those who are mourning, at a different time and place they are not.

Shame there’s no one on this thread who actually knows what the laws around this topic are.