Prince Andrew Thread 3

[Roussette]

Here is the previous thread...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_royal_family/4443261-Prince-Andrew-Thread-2?watched=1&msgid=114083283#114083283

There was a Letter Patent issued in 1996 at the time of the divorce to confirm her new title as Sarah, Duchess of York (no HRH, no 'the'), which is why I described it as part of the settlement. I suppose it might be more accurately described as legal arrangements consequent to the divorce

I imagined an equerry was like top of the tree manservant. It was something to do with horses I think, but has ended up as a trusted confidante and organiser. They are always officers and there's only ever been one female equerry, and that was to PP.
Interesting !

@BoarOnTheFloor

Fair point Rose.

What is the role of an equerry? I always think it’s horsey but I know it’s not.

Historically, it was horsey! They were a senior attendant with responsibility for the horses. These days an equerry is, in essence, a personal assistant.

The mention of Profumo was to drag the Dusty Springfield hit "Nothing has been proved" into Google search results, that's all. The idea that someone as thick as Prince Andrew could even pronounce it, let alone know who he was is risible.

However it does serve to remind us quite what goes on in high circles.

"Scandal" was a good film if you like that sort of thing. I wonder if the dialogue has been sanitised for the new millennia ?

Scandal was a great film, yes! I just remember the whole thing as it unfolded even though I was young because the reverberations went on for years and I remember my parents talking about it.

I was more thinking of the repairing of a reputation for A. It really didn't happen with Profumo from what I've read. I'm old and I remember it swirling around when I was young... it was a massive story.
From Wikipedia
Profumo was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE, Civil Division) in the 1975 Birthday Honours,[22] and received the honour at a Buckingham Palace ceremony from Queen Elizabeth II, signalling his return to respectability. In 1995, former Conservative Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher invited him to her 70th birthday dinner, where he sat next to the Queen. He appeared only occasionally in public, particularly in his last years when he used a wheelchair. His last appearance was at the memorial service for Sir Edward Heath on 8 November 2005.

Death and tributes
On 7 March 2006, Profumo suffered a stroke and was admitted to London's Chelsea and Westminster Hospital. He died two days later surrounded by his family, at the age of 91. After his death, many commentators said that he should be remembered as much for his contribution to society after his fall from political grace as for the scandal of 1963 which caused that fall. He was cremated at Mortlake Crematorium; his ashes were buried next to those of his wife at the family vault in Hersham.[23][24]

@Roussette

I imagined an equerry was like top of the tree manservant. It was something to do with horses I think, but has ended up as a trusted confidante and organiser. They are always officers and there's only ever been one female equerry, and that was to PP. Interesting !

There has been more than one female equerry but Philip's was the first, although both Charles and Andrew had previously appointed female assistant equerries. Squadron Leader Jayne Casebury became Charles' first female equerry in 2006. Andrew appointed Royal Navy Lieutenant Caroline Clark the same year. In 2010, he appointed Squadron Leader Charlotte Fenn. This list may not be exhaustive.

That's interesting prh. I didn't find that when I looked, I must've been looking in the wrong place.

If I were Randy Andy, I wouldn't want people to start remembering (or using Google) to remember Profumo. Especially if it prompts them to see the film "Scandal" and have the sight of a guy with a jar of bees tied around his bollocks while they are thinking of this Particular Prince.

Also it's a paradigm of how society hasn't really moved on where it's the women that get punished for mens depravities.

And finally it serves to remind us of that wonderful working class kick in the bollocks delivered by Mandy Rice Davies that is just lurking in the background to win the internet in 2022 ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Rice-Davies#%22Well_he_would,_wouldn't_he?%22

So now the thick twat has just reminded us all (and allowed a whole fresh generation to discover for themselves) of that fateful reply. And pretty much given VGs team their stock reply to every rebuttal he will come up with.

Proof positive that you have to be born royal. You'd never have gotten there on your own merits.

Also, given the US dimension to this, dredging up a British political sex scandal as a cloak of rehabilitation may not be the best move.

derxa
Yes I read that. It was interesting.

This is too. www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/real-history-profumo-affair-christine-keeler-who-what-happened/

Serendipity

Yes to 'well he would, wouldn't he'

A phrase to top all phrases

@Roussette

Serendipity

Yes to 'well he would, wouldn't he'

A phrase to top all phrases

And a gift to VGs team. The second he denies anything, they can whip it out in court and let the internet do the rest.

Also worth noting that the Profumo inquiry was led by Lord Denning - a "colorful" character in legal circles who took the view that the Birmingham six could not be found innocent (even though they were) because it would mean having to accept the police were corrupt.

www.mactheknife.org/Quotations/Appalling_Vista.html

So I remain sceptical of the Denning "no harm was done by Profumo" whitewash.

I'm not a historian, not a lawyer. Not a journalist. If I can pull that up with a cup of tea, some memories (and a DM that burned with passion for equality) then it will interesting to see - now Andrew has decided he's the new Profumo - much it's remembered.

Then there's the Russian angle. Some things never change.

There were 30 years solid charity work between Profumo's downfall and his CBE.

It takes a couple of decades to live down a 'fake sheikh' sting, 30 years for an ill-judged affair, so what for this? 40? He'd be 101, so that's effectively 'never'

There were 30 years solid charity work between Profumo's downfall and his CBE

And some people can spend 90 years devoting their lives to charity and not see so much as a Duchy Original.

All you've done now is remind me what a crock of shit the honours system is.

Since we're discussion any names Andrew might use, maybe "Goldsmith" would get him to the head of the line ?

Profumo affair 1963, CBE 1975. 12 years not 30.

If a Commander of the British Empire is the benchmark for "return to respectability", he didn't have to wait that long.

The Telegraph has got a new article up.

It's behind a paywall, so can't quote it directly but it includes
a) a pic of the Duchess with him, that they're interpreting as a show of solidarity. But it's un a vehicle, so I think it could mean anything
b) info on what info the Duke's legal team is asking for - I'll see if I can find a non-paywall version anywhere else. But even the straining-the-bounds-of-credibility kindest interpretation is that he's out to do a hatchet job on VG

So I was wondering if that is why HMQ made it abundantly clear that he's on his own

That's interesting Edith I think you're right.

All that I've read today tells me that the Queen wants it sorted with a pay off. And it hints to me that A wants to fight it all the way, hence wanting to quiz her psychologist about the possibility of false memory syndrome.

If that's the case, this could well be the Queen saying... OK you're on your own, get on with it.

The former wife of a duke is entitled to continue to use the title with her forename prefixed to the title and without the definite article. If she remarried, she would lose the "Duchess of York" style. I'm not sure what happens if Andrew is stripped of his title

As does Lady Colin Campbell.

And a gift to VGs team. The second he denies anything, they can whip it out in court and let the internet do the rest.

An article in the Daily Fail quoting "friends of Andrew" has no evidential value whatsoever. If VG's team attempt to introduce it, I would take that as a sign of desperation.

By the way, people may have missed this, but the judge has not actually given a definitive ruling on whether the indemnity in VG's settlement with Epstein applies to Andrew. His ruling was that this is up to the jury to decide.

The former wife of a duke is entitled to continue to use the title with her forename prefixed to the title and without the definite article. If she remarried, she would lose the "Duchess of York" style. I'm not sure what happens if Andrew is stripped of his title

Nothing would change. Her title isn’t linked with his anymore.

Her closeness to him might make public opinion interesting on her use of it though.

Yes, it was the friends/source that drew similarities to Profumo’ in the work that he envisages doing not that PA himself was using that example

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60005128

False memories...hmmm. Somehow I don't think it's Virgina who has the false memories.

False memories...hmmm. Somehow I don't think it's Virgina who has the false memories

There's an actual photo!

Maybe we're all having false memories and think we've seen a photo

I’m quite looking forward to the book he’ll write to make up the hole in his finances \ get his own back on Charles and William (if they did indeed force the Queen’s hand).