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Original poster

Prince Andrew Thread 2

999 replies

Roussette · 03/01/2022 11:34

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4442126-Prince-Andrew

Here is previous thread.

I've started a new thread because today and tomorrow is crucial as far as the pending civil case.

And I also had a few comments I wanted to say to posters at the end of the last thread, but it ran out.

OP posts:
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5
Motherdare · 05/01/2022 17:43

The deal named four aides but didn't specify Maxwell which meant her bid to have her criminal case thrown out failed

I wonder why he didn’t name her?

WhatWouldKalindaDo · 05/01/2022 17:45

Regarding the 2009 VG and Epstein agreement, It really does seem so broad! I'm not sure how it can be enforced, as it would pretty much stop her suing anyone ever who may have been connected to Epstein whether they are named in the document or not.

Also, does Andrew really want to be saved by an agreement made by his purported victim and a sex trafficker and paedophile? Isn't it far better for him to just prove his er.... innocence?

However this turns out, things don't look good for him!

prh47bridge · 05/01/2022 17:58

Also, does Andrew really want to be saved by an agreement made by his purported victim and a sex trafficker and paedophile? Isn't it far better for him to just prove his er.... innocence?

It might be better for him to prove his innocence (although many people will never believe him no matter how strong the evidence), but the priority is to win the case. His lawyers will take the view that getting the case dismissed by any means possible is better than facing the uncertainties of a trial. This is particularly so in the US where many civil cases (including this one) are decided by jury. Perverse verdicts by juries in civil cases are not uncommon in the US, unfortunately.

prh47bridge · 05/01/2022 18:00

I'm not sure how it can be enforced, as it would pretty much stop her suing anyone ever who may have been connected to Epstein whether they are named in the document or not.

If the US courts agree with that interpretation, they would enforce it. They would take the view that she has accepted $500k in return for giving up all Epstein-related claims. Based on the way the hearing went, it currently looks like the judge in this case will not accept that interpretation, but we don't know for sure.

WhatWouldKalindaDo · 05/01/2022 18:08

prh47bridge

Thanks for explaining!

SerendipityJane · 05/01/2022 18:12

Perverse verdicts by juries in civil cases are not uncommon in the US, unfortunately.

Or UK criminal cases today Grin

Ultimately Prince Andrew needs to win this case to avoid being publicly referred to in unflattering terms that might cause people to think less of him. If he loses - or settles - then it would simply be a fair comment.

That would change the breathless commentary for the Platinum Jubilee ...

RoyalFamilyFan · 05/01/2022 18:13

When will we know what the court has decided?

Vapeyvapevape · 05/01/2022 18:17

If Kaplan dismisses the agreement , it goes to court and VG wins , could PA then be arrested in criminal charges?

Vapeyvapevape · 05/01/2022 18:21

*on

prh47bridge · 05/01/2022 18:32

@Vapeyvapevape

If Kaplan dismisses the agreement , it goes to court and VG wins , could PA then be arrested in criminal charges?
Whether he would face criminal charges is independent of this case. Remember that the standard of proof in this case is lower than for a criminal case so, even if he loses this case, that does not mean he would be found guilty in a criminal trial - "must have known" may be enough in a civil case, it may not be enough in a criminal one. If he was prosecuted, it is possible that a judge would rule that he could not stand trial as this case had prejudiced his right to a fair trial.

There does not appear to be any ongoing criminal investigation against Andrew in the US. If there was, they could ask for him to be extradited. However, that would require Giuffre to give evidence against him in a criminal trial. It is not clear she would do so. Comments from prosecutors involved in the 2007 case against Epstein suggest she may have refused to co-operate.

wheresmymojo · 05/01/2022 18:42

@BIWI

Love Island and Naked Attraction would not have been on TV 20 years ago, nor would Ann Summers shops be a part and parcel of many high streets or malls in the UK, or Boots selling vibrators and other sex aids. I think the point is that sex has become much more 'mainstream' - for want of a better word!

I was shopping in Ann Summers more than 20 years ago on the High Street as a 16-18 year old.

The first shop was opened in 1970...

TomPinch · 05/01/2022 19:01

@Vapeyvapevape

If Kaplan dismisses the agreement , it goes to court and VG wins , could PA then be arrested in criminal charges?
This may have been addressed before but if the judge rules that the agreement doesn't apply to Prince Andrew wouldn't he appeal that ruling before trial?
prh47bridge · 05/01/2022 19:13

This may have been addressed before but if the judge rules that the agreement doesn't apply to Prince Andrew wouldn't he appeal that ruling before trial?

I'm not sure how appeals work in New York. It could certainly form part of an appeal if he loses the trial. I don't know if he can lodge a stand-alone appeal against a pre-trial ruling (which is what this would be).

CathyorClaire · 05/01/2022 20:41

The fact it didn't specifically name her was not a factor

Strange though that it specifically named four others who are still walking free. A big oversight for JE?

When will we know what the court has decided?

Pretty soon Wink

CathyorClaire · 05/01/2022 20:46

could PA then be arrested in criminal charges?

As I understand it giving evidence in a civil case could be used as the basis for a criminal case so my prediction is his hideously expensive lawyers will do any talking and he will remain skulking behing Mummy's many and opulent gates.

CathyorClaire · 05/01/2022 20:47

behind

RoyalFamilyFan · 05/01/2022 21:45

I read someone saying that this will be dismissed as such signed agreements conflict with the Crime Victims Rights Act. I have zero idea if that is true.

prh47bridge · 05/01/2022 22:06

@RoyalFamilyFan

I read someone saying that this will be dismissed as such signed agreements conflict with the Crime Victims Rights Act. I have zero idea if that is true.
I don't think it is true. I don't see anything in the CVRA that would prevent a victim entering into an agreement that would stop them taking civil action against alleged offenders. I think it may well be dismissed given the tenor of the judge's remarks yesterday, but I don't think it will be for this reason.
RoyalFamilyFan · 05/01/2022 22:10

Okay thanks for that.
I don't really care why, I just want it to be dismissed so the case proceeds to court.

OverByYer · 05/01/2022 22:27

I thought the judge said he'd be quick. Ive been checking my phone all day. I don't know why I am so invested in this.

Feeldoublemyage · 05/01/2022 22:38

I’m reading that it may be a mistrial now, wtf

SpaceshiptoMars · 05/01/2022 22:38

@OverByYer

On the one hand, he needs to learn a lesson or two. On the other, US courts reaching out for UK citizens?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/01/2022 22:47

I’m reading that it may be a mistrial now, wtf

Might that be Ghislaine's trial you're thinking of?
Reportedly her defence counsel are demanding another trial because one of the jurors swung the views of the others by telling them all about his own abuse experiences

Original poster
Roussette · 05/01/2022 22:48

I thought he just spoke in an interview after the trial, did he bring this up during jury deliberations?!

OP posts:
Feeldoublemyage · 05/01/2022 23:00

@Puzzledandpissedoff Yes, sorry, Ghislaine’s. I can see her getting away with this

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