BBC The Princes and the Press

[coniferforest]

Did anyone watch this last night? About William and Harry and their different approaches to the press. Last night was part 1 of 2.

There are other roles in the army. Former soldiers also find rewarding careers in civilian life as they have a lot to offer.

Just a quick response on this. I really think Harry is someone who needs to be hands on and active. I've theorised occasionally that he may have something like ADHD. I think he's great in the right environment but he can struggle outside of that. A desk job would have been quite the wrong thing for him IMO.

Ah - thanks, Roussette. As said I honestly couldn't remember the timescale, but you're right that they certainly didn't sit on this one

I think it has been hinted at that the only way Harry could progress in the army was if he took up a desk job and that he didn’t want to end up a ‘pencil pusher’. Which does seem to fit with his personality.

The Vegas incident was much more than what was published in the press. That was the tip of a very large iceberg. There was a lot of silencing going on, I suspect that was the rock bottom. I hope he’s happy now, he was a seriously messed up young man and the U.K. press for need to accept that they played their part in that.

Can you elucidate on that Pease.

It was covered endlessly at the time. Pictures day after day. What he drank, what he did, women etc.

What was silenced and how do you know it was silenced, in that if it was silenced, how would you know?

The story took place in the USA.

The likes of TMZ would have been all over it like a rash. What could the British press know more than them. What could they cover that US media would not.

And yes, @Peaseblossum22 how would you know a story that was never published?

@Aspiringmatriarch

There are other roles in the army. Former soldiers also find rewarding careers in civilian life as they have a lot to offer.

Just a quick response on this. I really think Harry is someone who needs to be hands on and active. I've theorised occasionally that he may have something like ADHD. I think he's great in the right environment but he can struggle outside of that. A desk job would have been quite the wrong thing for him IMO.

Yes I think that's very true. My thoughts when I saw that footage of him scowling were that to go from active service , being with other men, high adrenaline, chain of command, specific targets etc to sitting watching a display of dancing, on 'tour' in that context must have been hell. A bit like Philip having to give up his naval career to trail around after the Queen. I know he left the Army a while ago, but it's all he knows in terms of 'work'. He didn't have to be a 'working' Royal, it was his choice, but quite the wrong choice. I do wonder how fulfilled he is now in his life. He has no role and no real purpose. Making Netflix documentaries about his own life and 'writing' a book about himself don't really sound very meaningful. He was great with Invictus though.

I thought that Harry couldn't progress any more in the army was because he couldn't pass the exams. That plus security, he had to leave. But he loved it, so I think he's bitter about having to leave.

He was not scowling because of the dance and sitting there, he was specifically scowling at the press. He was perfectly fine with interacting with the people of Fiji. Indeed, a few pictures were taken (meant to be intimate, I assume away from the whole press as a pack, and he was smiling and happy).
His scowl has nothing to do with his work.

We don't know what choices he was given in terms of becoming a senior working royal and what choices he had. Judging by the big deal the palace made about his departure, I am guessing not many. Did he even think about his choices and entertain the fact that he could just branch out, was he aware of his choices. We really don't know for sure.Bearing in mind that the working senior royal duties themselves do not seem to phase him anyway.

They say they are happy. They look it. On top of Netflix and Spotify, he works for two Silicone Valley companies, has Archewell duties, and still has Invictus, Sentebale, Travelyst, animal charities (maybe he could not do these lately due to the fact he needs to be physically there) and other projects and summits. He seems like a super busy person to me.

Oooh you can't even say Harry looked ungracious at that reception without people writing essays to defend him. I see.

@SnottyLottie

I honestly just hate the misogyny of it all. Not even including the thinly veiled racism. I’ve seen all sorts of things alluded to about Doria. That she did drugs, jail time etc. Nothing to actually prove this of course, just speculation carefully worded to stop law suits. She has been nothing but the model of quiet dignity. Yet Thomas causes all this drama, heartbreak and humiliation and he gets painted as the loving, wronged father by certain aspects of the media.

Then you have the whole Carole Middleton portrayed as a scheming Mrs Bennet type (a la Pride & Prejudice) who is a social climber only interested in trying to marry her daughters off to wealthy men and how she pushed Kate into William’s path. The whole ‘toilet gate’ drama which was people making fun of her for not being posh enough to be mingling with the royal family because she was a flight attendant and sneer middle class 🙄 Yet you never hear the same being said about Michael. They all went wild about Pippa Middleton after she wore that bridesmaid dress but no one gives a toss about the brother. He clearly doesn’t sell papers!

When Mike Tindall is caught ‘dwarf tossing’ or Harry is playing naked pool it is lauded as them being ‘lads’ and down to earth. But God forbid that Eugenie puts a bit of weight on or Beatrice wears a terrible frock, they will be ridiculed and humiliated across the media. Who remembers the Ugly Step Sisters meme that went around after Kate and William’s wedding?

The media originally played the brothers’ fallout as a row between the wives at first because obviously women are catty and bitchy. Diana’s golden boys could never fall out with each other by themselves it has to be down the jealous meddling wives🙄

It will be Lady Louise’s turn soon. I’ve already seen unkind comments about her eyes and the photo of her bridesmaid dressing blowing up at H&M’s wedding.

I agree with all of this. There always has to be a female rivalry. I think around William and Kate’s wedding (I mean in the few years around it) there were stories about how Beatrice and Eugenie didn’t like Kate, were jealous of her and her popularity etc etc. Then when Meghan comes along, exactly same thing - Kate doesn’t like her, is jealous of her and her popularity etc, but on a bigger scale as Kate and Meghan are more high profile than Beatrice and Eugenie, and you can add in the warring brothers element as well.

And not just royalty, any two women working together get stories about how they must be fighting over dressing rooms and top billing - even like, X factor/BGT judges, women obviously just cannot be around each other without breaking out the handbags at dawn.

@megletthesecond

"cast of grotesques" they all were weren't they.

I didn't quite catch who the Peter Hunt chap was though. He seemed ok-ish.

A bbc royal correspondent until 2017.

Harry had to leave the army because he couldn't reconcile not being able to be deployed - and also because he's not bright enough to have progressed up through staff officer roles. He'd have made it to Major, tops, if he'd stayed in.
I do think that the time W&C spent on Anglesey and in Norfolk while he was a search and rescue pilot shows that it is possible to come to an accommodation with the press and do something meaningful as a royal. But that would require a quieter life than I think Meghan wanted - she clearly wants the celebrity profile.
The PP who traced the treatment of women who marry into the royals (or whose family marry in) is spot on. It's awful. And Meghan is not special.

and also because he's not bright enough to have progressed up through staff officer roles. He'd have made it to Major, tops, if he'd stayed in.

How do you know this? Who said this in the army?

Meghan was a celebrity before she met Harry with over 2M followers on her site.

Not too sure what you mean she was not special. But I do know she was different, she is a woman of colour. She also has had the most criticism and vitriol than other royals.

@rubicscubicle

and also because he's not bright enough to have progressed up through staff officer roles. He'd have made it to Major, tops, if he'd stayed in.

How do you know this? Who said this in the army?

Meghan was a celebrity before she met Harry with over 2M followers on her site.

Not too sure what you mean she was not special. But I do know she was different, she is a woman of colour. She also has had the most criticism and vitriol than other royals.

It's well known that he got among the worst grades in his year at school. That's why he didn't go to university (it's unusual now to go straight to Sandhurst from school). My family is military and it's a very small world. Well known that you now have to have some smarts to make it up past Major and into the higher ranks. Captain is usually where the posh thickos stop. My point was that Meghan's treatment by the press was awful but entirely in keeping with the way the Duchess of Cambridge and Harry's ex girlfriends were treated. Probably the biggest difference was that social media was much bigger when H&M started dating and that's where most of the vitriol seems to have been.

The worst grades at school or in the Army? You are surmising here, you don't know.
He was in the Army for 10 years so he can't be that much of a 'posh thicko'
How rude.

@Aspiringmatriarch

There are other roles in the army. Former soldiers also find rewarding careers in civilian life as they have a lot to offer.

Just a quick response on this. I really think Harry is someone who needs to be hands on and active. I've theorised occasionally that he may have something like ADHD. I think he's great in the right environment but he can struggle outside of that. A desk job would have been quite the wrong thing for him IMO.

Exactly! He reminds me of an ex Marine I know. (He’s even a ginger too) He went into youth work and then the Fire Service. He’s thrived there. Couldn’t H have done something like that? He doesn’t need the money.

No one is saying he is a ‘posh thicko’ but it is a well known fact that he struggled massively at school and frankly it was very unfair to send him to Eton. He himself is quoted as saying that he couldn’t compete academically so became something of a ‘bad boy’. He would have been so much better at Gordonstoun where his leadership and sports skills could have shone. Not everyone is academically able, I hope you wouldn’t dismiss my academically challenged but decidedly middle class dc as a ‘posh thicko’. Why must you interpret every comment as a slur of some kind.

Plenty of posh thickos in the army serve a lot longer than ten years . Evidently you haven't met many army officers @Roussette. I know a lot of them.

@Peaseblossum22

The Vegas incident was much more than what was published in the press. That was the tip of a very large iceberg. There was a lot of silencing going on, I suspect that was the rock bottom. I hope he’s happy now, he was a seriously messed up young man and the U.K. press for need to accept that they played their part in that.

Can you expand on this?

I’m definitely saying he’s a posh thicko. He had a teacher’s help with his art A level, as a tribunal found, and still came out with a B and a D, after an entire education at elite schools.

@SnottyLottie

I honestly just hate the misogyny of it all. Not even including the thinly veiled racism. I’ve seen all sorts of things alluded to about Doria. That she did drugs, jail time etc. Nothing to actually prove this of course, just speculation carefully worded to stop law suits. She has been nothing but the model of quiet dignity. Yet Thomas causes all this drama, heartbreak and humiliation and he gets painted as the loving, wronged father by certain aspects of the media.

Then you have the whole Carole Middleton portrayed as a scheming Mrs Bennet type (a la Pride & Prejudice) who is a social climber only interested in trying to marry her daughters off to wealthy men and how she pushed Kate into William’s path. The whole ‘toilet gate’ drama which was people making fun of her for not being posh enough to be mingling with the royal family because she was a flight attendant and sneer middle class 🙄 Yet you never hear the same being said about Michael. They all went wild about Pippa Middleton after she wore that bridesmaid dress but no one gives a toss about the brother. He clearly doesn’t sell papers!

When Mike Tindall is caught ‘dwarf tossing’ or Harry is playing naked pool it is lauded as them being ‘lads’ and down to earth. But God forbid that Eugenie puts a bit of weight on or Beatrice wears a terrible frock, they will be ridiculed and humiliated across the media. Who remembers the Ugly Step Sisters meme that went around after Kate and William’s wedding?

The media originally played the brothers’ fallout as a row between the wives at first because obviously women are catty and bitchy. Diana’s golden boys could never fall out with each other by themselves it has to be down the jealous meddling wives🙄

It will be Lady Louise’s turn soon. I’ve already seen unkind comments about her eyes and the photo of her bridesmaid dressing blowing up at H&M’s wedding.

The media are not stupid, they understand very well who their audience are and what they want to read because they can measure the clicks & track the users. Men are not interested in what Kate is wearing. Or whether she made Meghan cry over the children’s wedding outfits. Or whether Meghan lied to Oprah. Or Eugenie’s weight. Or Beatrice’s baby. If they are interested in Mike Tindall, it’s because he won the World Cup in 2003, not because he’s married to Zara.

Royal coverage & gossip is overwhelmingly created for and consumed by women who are interested in those things. Women create the demand for this stuff so the media satisfy that demand and monetise the clicks.

Exactly! He reminds me of an ex Marine I know. (He’s even a ginger too) He went into youth work and then the Fire Service. He’s thrived there. Couldn’t H have done something like that? He doesn’t need the money.

I would think he probably did not want to - otherwise he could easily have done this.
But agree with @rubicscubicle he seems to have enough on his plate he now also has 2 children and definitely seems a lot happier than when he was here. I would also think if he later finds that he wants to do something else he will move on. However much people want to put him down he now has a lot of experience in different fields so between the two of them they can probably have quite interesting and varied careers. I can't imagine that he is doing a job that he doesn't want to do.

@AgedVellum

I’m definitely saying he’s a posh thicko. He had a teacher’s help with his art A level, as a tribunal found, and still came out with a B and a D, after an entire education at elite schools.

There’s two sides to that. He got through Eton thanks to that extra help but Eton was probably the wrong place for him and A levels were probably wrong for him too. He probably should have gone up to road to Berkshire College of Agriculture in Maidenhead and done a BTECH.

Royal coverage & gossip is overwhelmingly created for and consumed by women who are interested in those things. Women create the demand for this stuff so the media satisfy that demand and monetise the clicks.

I noticed the interviewer and interviewee were practically smirking when relaying this story. Almost as a joke.