BBC The Princes and the Press

[coniferforest]

Did anyone watch this last night? About William and Harry and their different approaches to the press. Last night was part 1 of 2.

I'm NC with my dad. Before the wool fell from my eyes, I thought he was the best thing since sliced bread and told everyone we were really close. Only I was wrong and was in a toxic relationship with a narcissist who made me feel special when he paid me attention.

Let’s not forget that the heart wringing letter to her father was written expressly with the view that it WOULD be published.

That is the Mail's case which was rejected by both the original judge and the Court of Appeal. There is a difference between wording a letter carefully because you know that it might be leaked (which is what Meghan did on the evidence presented) and writing a letter specifically because you want it to be published.

Even if she did want it to be published, for which there is no evidence, that doesn't make any difference to the copyright claim. If I ever write a novel, I will clearly do so with the intention that it should be published. If the Daily Mail got hold of my manuscript, would that give them the right to print half of my novel without my consent and without compensation? No, it wouldn't.

For the privacy claim, even if the letter had been written for publication, that doesn't mean the Mail can publish almost half of it without her consent. They would need to show that there is a public interest which requires them to publish this much. They failed to do so. As the judges involved pointed out, although their pleaded case was about allowing Thomas Markle a right of reply to the People article, that is clearly not what the articles were about. They were about exposing the contents of this letter (or their spin on it, accompanied by a ridiculous analysis by an alleged handwriting expert) to their readers.

what the Mail really wanted was the spectacle of the Duchess in the witness box and the opportunity to bully her there

Agree completely. The tenor of the Mail's articles since the judgement is that Meghan should be on trial. That is completely wrong. The Mail is the defendant in this case and has failed to make out a defence that has any prospect of success. They want a trial so they can continue their anti-Meghan campaign.

I'm totally with Roussette on this.

How anyone could watch that Channel 5 documentary (still available on You Tube) and come to the conclusion that Thomas Markle was or is , a "loving supportive father", must to my mind be wanting to believe that very badly for reasons inexplicable to me!

The words out of his own mouth were "The Royals owe me, Meghan owes me, Harry owes me" (not necessarily in that order!) and "what I've been through, I should be rewarded for".

If you were a loving parent, the financial aspect of all of this would not even enter your head, it would be all about the relationship. And all the nonsense about the staged photos was about money too.

And that's without all of the "I will/won't be at the wedding" which must have been so disappointing and hurtful for any bride to endure, never mind one so much in the public eye, and the suspiciously timed heart op, having been exposed as a liar.

Piers Morgan's rhetoric about TM being a vulnerable victim in all of this is total b.s. imho and is an opinion he has constructed to support his own case against MM and is all imho about injured pride because MM was sensible enough to cease contact with him having met him. PM's views expressed with frothing vitriol against MM can hardly said to be objective. And yet we are expected to believe his thoughts on TM being a loving father?

As for MM saying things in her blog about having a loving relationship with her dad when she was younger, well people grow up and look at things more objectively as they get older don't they? And an occasion such as a wedding, never mind a public royal wedding, tends to bring out the best and worst in people in my experience anyway.

[quote BringBackThinEyebrows]@PicsInRed

You mention 'narcissistic people', who has been diagnosed with NPD?[/quote]
I don't believe Thomas Markle has a diagnosis of NPD, no.

But I (and the world) have witnessed him behaving narcissistically, in the original sense of the word, towards his daughter.

I also consider that his very public pattern of behaviour towards his daughter is abusive, and that she's following all the advice in the best tradition of "Stately Homes" to deal with him.

Also, I had a very difficult relationship (sadly) with my mil. She was what would be described nowadays as a narcissist I believe. But human relationships are complicated. Even she, who could be highly manipulative and domineering, had some good aspects to her character. Personalities tend not to be all bad or all good. It was only when her manipulation extended to our DC that we had to put a certain distance between us. And so it is with many family relationships; you tolerate the behaviour for so long until, well, a line is crossed and it becomes intolerable.

As for MM saying things in her blog about having a loving relationship with her dad when she was younger, well people grow up and look at things more objectively as they get older don't they?

^^ This. So much so.
And having children really focusses the mind on what is right and what isn't. As Samcro said upthread.

I guess the hate against Meghan has to be ramped up to distract from the trial and mentions of Andrew at the moment.

@julieca

I guess the hate against Meghan has to be ramped up to distract from the trial and mentions of Andrew at the moment.

The discussion is about her father, Thomas Markle. He is being accused of being abusive and narcissistic to Meghan via the media. She is being portrayed as a victim of a this alleged abuser (meanwhile, my violent parent was described as a 'loving father').

How is there any 'hate' against Meghan, let alone 'ramped up' 'hate'?! Can you give an example of a hateful comment?

@BringBackThinEyebrows all the earlier comments about how awful Meghan was to post something about how her dad was lovely and how she now has nothing to do with him.
For the record I totally agree that adults do sometimes realise their childhood was not as great as they first thought. Or that they did have a great childhood but that their parent treats them awfully as an adult.

@julieca earlier comments where? So there isn't a comment that has triggered your 'hate' or 'ramped up' comment?

FWIW I think unless Meghan herself has accused her father of abusing her as a child, casually speculating about it is wrong.

I am aware that we are again seeing the ramping up of hate against Meghan. And I don't think the timing is a conicidence.

@julieca

I am aware that we are again seeing the ramping up of hate against Meghan. And I don't think the timing is a conicidence.

There's no evidence to support your opinion so you're just repeating the same comment. Got it

'For the record I totally agree that adults do sometimes realise their childhood was not as great as they first thought. '

She was posting favourably about him well into her 30s! plenty of time to notice her childhood may not have been great 🙄.

They mismanaged the whole thing by not going to see him and making him feel part of it rather just an add on at the wedding, Markle Senior lashed out in the media but as I said when the Sussexes have publicly attacked H's family I don't think they are in a positiin to throw stones tbh.

People refer to The Tig blog, and the loving posts about her father, particularly Father's Day 2016, which I've seen reposted several times. Also her warm tribute to him for taking her to ballet and tap classes every Saturday, and a restaurant for a club sandwich after. It was a blog which she used to promote herself and endorse products - many celebrities do that. As such it was a curated image of her life and relationships, not necessarily the full picture of the relationship. Like the conversation on Ellen, or the chats most celebrities have on Graham Norton etc. Just because he could treat her to pricey restaurants doesn't mean that the $4.99 Sizzler salad is a lie, or that her loving tributes to him were the full picture.

Curated image, my truth, misremembering - or just plain old fashioned lying - like to a court of law?

H and M need to take some time out for their own MH, make some content for Netflix, enjoy their lovely children and listen to some good advisors.

I think Meghan actually really loves her father and is probably really sad that he lets himself be used by the media but his behaviour towards her has made it difficult for her to trust him. She now has her own family and rightly her priority in protecting them comes first. Can you imagine what he would do if he were to meet Archie and Lili now? It is sad as clearly they were close when she was younger and she has never denied this, but when you marry and have children you can't take chances with your young family and I don't blame her for NC with him - the worst is because of his health and age if something tragic happened she would probably be blamed for it. She knows him very well and she knows why she has made this decision. Who wouldn't love their children to have a relationship with all their grandparents but sometimes it just can't be. To comes across as very childish because he has worked in TV and knows what they media is like and they are using him - As a father he should be able to judge this for himself stay out of the limelight and one day I'm sure M&H would let him see his grandchildren - but right now - No ! - he would be on breakfast news the following morning ! Im sure her M&H have had disagreements as mother and daughter but Doria obviously has a better relationship hence being very close to the grandchildren.

@Maireas

People refer to The Tig blog, and the loving posts about her father, particularly Father's Day 2016, which I've seen reposted several times. Also her warm tribute to him for taking her to ballet and tap classes every Saturday, and a restaurant for a club sandwich after. It was a blog which she used to promote herself and endorse products - many celebrities do that. As such it was a curated image of her life and relationships, not necessarily the full picture of the relationship. Like the conversation on Ellen, or the chats most celebrities have on Graham Norton etc. Just because he could treat her to pricey restaurants doesn't mean that the $4.99 Sizzler salad is a lie, or that her loving tributes to him were the full picture.

It’s strange there was never any public mention of her mother before she met Harry. Never a word. I think her whole life is manipulated for media consumption. It’s what she does and what she knows. Perhaps objective truth does not come into things generally.

@Furryrascal

I'm totally with Roussette on this.

How anyone could watch that Channel 5 documentary (still available on You Tube) and come to the conclusion that Thomas Markle was or is , a "loving supportive father", must to my mind be wanting to believe that very badly for reasons inexplicable to me!

The words out of his own mouth were "The Royals owe me, Meghan owes me, Harry owes me" (not necessarily in that order!) and "what I've been through, I should be rewarded for".

If you were a loving parent, the financial aspect of all of this would not even enter your head, it would be all about the relationship. And all the nonsense about the staged photos was about money too.

And that's without all of the "I will/won't be at the wedding" which must have been so disappointing and hurtful for any bride to endure, never mind one so much in the public eye, and the suspiciously timed heart op, having been exposed as a liar.

Piers Morgan's rhetoric about TM being a vulnerable victim in all of this is total b.s. imho and is an opinion he has constructed to support his own case against MM and is all imho about injured pride because MM was sensible enough to cease contact with him having met him. PM's views expressed with frothing vitriol against MM can hardly said to be objective. And yet we are expected to believe his thoughts on TM being a loving father?

As for MM saying things in her blog about having a loving relationship with her dad when she was younger, well people grow up and look at things more objectively as they get older don't they? And an occasion such as a wedding, never mind a public royal wedding, tends to bring out the best and worst in people in my experience anyway.

I think M thinks the RF owe her too. Like father like daughter.

You have a point - I read that The Tig brought in $60k pa, a good supplement to an actor's income. It's all definitely about image and lifestyle, endorsing products and your personality.
When she came to the UK that summer when she met Harry, that was the purpose of her trip. Career and personal development.
No doubt life in the Royal Family was hard to adjust to.

I think M thinks the RF owe her too. Like father like daughter

And how is that manifesting itself given they support themselves? What is she expecting from the RF that she is owed?

I don't see that.

I’m sure she shares Harry’s view that they should be paying for the security .

'I think M thinks the RF owe her too. Like father like daughter.'

Yes they both have their perceived grievances and their way to deal with it and punish those who have upset them is to talk about on chat shows. Why is it ok for the Sussexes to do that but not Markle Senior?!

@JaniieJones

'I think M thinks the RF owe her too. Like father like daughter.'

Yes they both have their perceived grievances and their way to deal with it and punish those who have upset them is to talk about on chat shows. Why is it ok for the Sussexes to do that but not Markle Senior?!

Exactly. All the same tactics.

I think M thinks the RF owe her too. Like father like daughter.

That is supposition on your part though, you "think it" *ToomanyScentedcandles". You haven't heard it come out of MM's mouth and repeated, like TM repeated it. And say you joined a family business, a restaurant perhaps, for whom you worked, it would not be unreasonable to expect some financial compensation would it? But it would be totally unreasonable for your father, who is unconnected to the business, to demand financial compensation.

And sorry but if the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" it is equally likely that MM takes after Doria!

Just supposition that she thinks she's owed. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Doesn't make it fact though...
And I apply that to what I think too.