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The royal family

BBC The Princes and the Press

999 replies

coniferforest · 23/11/2021 09:24

Did anyone watch this last night? About William and Harry and their different approaches to the press. Last night was part 1 of 2.

OP posts:
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Viviennemary · 03/12/2021 11:45

They must have know that they didn't stand a chance with the copyright case. But they proved she didn't tell the truth re the co-operation with the book. I think they have a point about the privacy. Thomas Markle held on to the letter for I think 5 months until he was provoked into disclosing it because of the article by the five friends. I hope the DM appeal. I think they will.

rubicscubicle · 03/12/2021 12:16

Well if they do, they are presenting MM with a chance for a hat trick as she will win for the 3rd time.

Russell Myers was saying the Fail has already spent £3M on this case so far. If they want to take it up to £5M that is fine by me.

Viviennemary · 03/12/2021 12:28

I expect that's peanuts for the DM. And they can probably offset the costs against profits. Not sure on this though.

rubicscubicle · 03/12/2021 12:33

@Viviennemary

I expect that's peanuts for the DM. And they can probably offset the costs against profits. Not sure on this though.
And those are the profits that MM lawyers want as well.

And no it's not peanuts. They needed a bailout. They are broke.

Roussette · 03/12/2021 12:38

Let them appeal again. And let them end up with egg on their face again.
You obviously really wanted the verdict to go the other way didn't you... Vivienne

Peaseblossum22 · 03/12/2021 12:38

And no it's not peanuts. They needed a bailout. They are broke.

Do you have a source for that, I have not read anything about them being bust?

Roussette · 03/12/2021 12:39

I wonder if that was because you felt they had the right to publish private letters. Or you wanted MM taught a lesson

rubicscubicle · 03/12/2021 12:59

They are not bust, we bailed them out. All the rags. The government made an announcement about it.

During the pandemic, they had their reporters campaign to everyone to stop buying coffee and buy the papers instead.

Peaseblossum22 · 03/12/2021 13:19

Do you have a reference , this seems to have completely passed me by and i have googled and cannot find anything

AnnunciataZ · 03/12/2021 13:42

@Roussette

I wonder if that was because you felt they had the right to publish private letters. Or you wanted MM taught a lesson
Do you really need to ask @Roussette?? Wink
Roussette · 03/12/2021 13:44

No, not really!

Pawprintpaper · 03/12/2021 13:58

I might be naive, but was MM laying a trap with the letter - writing it in such a way that it would make her look good if it did leak, expecting her dad to leak it, having friends go to the press to indicate it existed when he didn’t leak it, so pushing him to go to the press, so she could sue them….?

But along the way she has had to concede that she was not honest about colluding with ff (although apparently it’s obvious from the contents that she must have done). She’s not resolved anything with her dad and he’s still doing embarrassing press interviews, so not sure what the original letter achieved. Maybe TM even thought it was a bit of a stunt.

So I’m not really sure what the point of it all was. I hope it’s not a hollow victory for her.

prh47bridge · 03/12/2021 14:20

@rubicscubicle

They are not bust, we bailed them out. All the rags. The government made an announcement about it.

During the pandemic, they had their reporters campaign to everyone to stop buying coffee and buy the papers instead.

I am not aware of any government bailout of newspapers. That has happened in some countries but not, as far as I am aware, in the UK.

I agree that they are not bust yet, but they are making big losses.

WeeTattieBogle · 03/12/2021 14:36

@Pawprintpaper

I might be naive, but was MM laying a trap with the letter - writing it in such a way that it would make her look good if it did leak, expecting her dad to leak it, having friends go to the press to indicate it existed when he didn’t leak it, so pushing him to go to the press, so she could sue them….?

But along the way she has had to concede that she was not honest about colluding with ff (although apparently it’s obvious from the contents that she must have done). She’s not resolved anything with her dad and he’s still doing embarrassing press interviews, so not sure what the original letter achieved. Maybe TM even thought it was a bit of a stunt.

So I’m not really sure what the point of it all was. I hope it’s not a hollow victory for her.

I read an article yesterday that referred to a communication between her and Jason K where she went over the language used in the letter and why she was using the words she did. It was very contrived even down to why she was going to refer to ‘daddy’ and exactly as you said in your post.
Serenster · 03/12/2021 14:47

I fully expected Meghan would win her appeal. The first instance judge was no slouch and he’d delivered a clearly explained and reasoned judgement. That doesn’t mean ANL were wrong to appeal – that’s a basic right of any litigant. But I similarly wasn’t surprised by the Court of Appeal upholding the first instance decision.

I even liked some of the tone of Meghan’s statement (though it’s a bit premature seeing as ANL have one more tier of Appeal, but she’s clearly had this drafted for a while and was itching to send it out Grin ). But some of it grated.

Making comments like tabloids setting up a model that “rewards chaos over truth” and twisting facts and manipulating the public sits extraordinarily ill on someone who herself has done exactly that. Not just in misleading he Court about her involvement in Finding Freedom either. As @Pawprintpaper and @WeeTattieBogle say, her supporters gloss over the fact that both the parties and the judge at first instance all agreed that the People Article inaccurately recorded the letter and the Duchess's purpose in sending it.

It was not a heartfelt attempt to repair the father-daughter relationship and was never an olive branch as the People Article alleged. Its main purposes were to reprimand Mr Markle for his previous conduct, and to try to dissuade him from talking to the press in future. It was written to “tug on the heartstrings” and manipulate the reader, as she herself made clear, and she then used it as a weapon to discredit her father (and don’t @ me with comments that her five friends briefed People about it without her knowledge – I expect that’s something else that she conveniently forget to be accurate about) and then swooped in with a lawsuit to position herself as the victim when he defended himself.

Even the Court of Appeal accepted that it might have been proportionate to disclose and publish a small part of the letter to rebut inaccuracies in the People Article, but ANL went too far (they also went all in with stories about the story they created from his rebuttal, but they is what they do…). And they will have to pay her for the risk they took and getting it wrong, but Meghan has had her reputation thoroughly damaged in the process too.

Oh, and I am amused by all those painting Jason Knauf as a smearer here. Meghan was presumably talking about people like him when she wrote her statement - "This is a victory not just for me, but for anyone who has ever felt scared to stand up for what's right”. Just like oooh, Jason Knauf, who had first hand knowledge of the matters in the court case and was brave enough to stand up and let the court know that the Duchess was misleading them in her evidence and statements of case, which she then had to admit. He’s the one here who’s actually been brave, and who actually had something to lose by being truthful.

SueSaid · 03/12/2021 14:55

'Making comments like tabloids setting up a model that “rewards chaos over truth” and twisting facts and manipulating the public sits extraordinarily ill on someone who herself has done exactly that'

Yes it's all very pot and kettle isn't it really. I don't think anyone has any moral high ground here at all.

rubicscubicle · 03/12/2021 15:12

That is exactly the point. They are creating chaos, bringing in irrelevant material to try and paint her in a certain light.

You can forget your mother's name. If it's not relevant to the case it does not matter. As has been proven by her win.

And Jason Knauf is a smearer with William's blessing / authority. He is not brave at all. He brought in irrelevant information that has nothing to do with the case and is therefore party to bringing chaos to a straightforward case and frankly wasting court time.

Roussette · 03/12/2021 15:12

Serenster Do you blame her for pleading with her father not to talk to the press?
I don't.
He was a complete loose cannon right up to days before the wedding. It must've been incredibly stressful. And she did everything she could to try and sort it... offering to send bodyguards and help to him. Trying to get him to see reason. Part of what came out from JK was the endless texts H&M sent TM begging him not to talk to the Press.

As for Jason Knauf... well.... he did what he had to do on direction of his current boss I presume. I don't consider him a brave man at all. I presume he had no choice. “It is plain from Mr Knauf’s evidence that the claimant did not want the contents of the letter put into the public domain even if she was prepared for the possibility that it might become public.”
Maybe JK isn't a 'smearer' but he is a 'leaker'

rubicscubicle · 03/12/2021 15:19

Did you not listen to the £350 billion speech from Sunak last year. A huge chunk was assigned to the British media. I remember because a lot of people complained that they are too useless to bail out.

I don't think the DM will tell it's readers about it, I suppose.

Most notably it was the sun that seemed to be in dire straights. So their information was easier to find.
But here are some quick links to give you an idea of losses. Don't have time to trawl the internet for you, you can well find bad things about MM, and conveniently can never when it's others

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/28/daily-mail-owner-print-advertising-revenues-plunge-by-70-per-cent-dmgt-covid-19

On here they reference how lawsuits take a huge chunk out of papers.

www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jun/11/rupert-murdoch-writes-down-value-of-sun-newspapers-to-zero

I don't follow the df, but I linked the message that was being tweeted a lot last year by rag reporters.

BBC The Princes and the Press
BBC The Princes and the Press
BBC The Princes and the Press
rubicscubicle · 03/12/2021 15:24

This brave 'hero' came with half the information. Only the ones that put MM in bad light.

Yeah, brave my S

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/12/2021 15:51

Nobody remembered the Queen's sudden recollection of her conversation with Burrell until it was linked to Meghan's to JK messages

I wouldn't quite say nobody, preparation; some of us remember it only too well

Neither would I have said that everyone "shrugs" about the media while recognising that Meghan's credibility's been shot to ribbons. It really doesn't have to be a case of "picking a side", and it's quite possible to acknowledge that they're all capable of twisting the truth ... as indeed they've done

derxa · 03/12/2021 15:51

He was a complete loose cannon right up to days before the wedding. It must've been incredibly stressful. And she did everything she could to try and sort it... offering to send bodyguards and help to him. Trying to get him to see reason. Part of what came out from JK was the endless texts H&M sent TM begging him not to talk to the Press. I can't imagine treating my father or prospective father in law like this. Treating him like an embarrassing inconvenience. A blot on my perfect landscape. As for the 'private' letter words fail me. Cruel and nasty. Do people on here treat their fathers like this? Do you really?

Roussette · 03/12/2021 15:59

derxa you obviously didn't read all the exchanges between H&M and TM prior to the wedding. They weren't treating him like an embarrassing convenience at all.

They were trying their utmost to help him. Offering bodyguards and different people to fly out and for them to accompany him. They sent texts saying they were calling now, they phoned endlessly, they asked him on and on to pick up the phone, but rather than answer the phone to them, TM went to a newspaper and asked them to print a story about him going to hospital.

So maybe @derxa think again on that.

The letter was cruel and nasty? Have you read it? Have you read about the extent they went to before the wedding... obviously not. So maybe not cast aspersions about how people on here treat their fathers Hmm

LadyEloise1 · 03/12/2021 15:59

I never understood the Queen's abrupt change re the Burrell case.
What was that about ?

PicsInRed · 03/12/2021 16:00

@LadyEloise1

I never understood the Queen's abrupt change re the Burrell case. What was that about ?
Perhaps the butler knew too much.