Interesting analysis on social media about Meghan

[Why2why]

Interesting analysis but who could be paying for this concerted effort? It’s suggested that not only is it coordinated but the people doing it are paid to do so.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ellievhall/bot-sentinel-meghan-markle-prince-harry-twitter

'I was a great fan of Diana but I don't think she was very easy to live with'

Yes and someone, her sisters courtiers anyone should have seen the disaster that would unfold.

@smilesy

Couples in general mostly have to contend with a lot of things in a marriage as it is, Camilla was the main reason for the unhappiness.

I disagree. I thought my marriage was happy but ex DH had an affair and when confronted with it, I realised I was not happy and nor was he. We have moved on and are now good friends and by many accounts, Diana was still friends with Charles after the marriage ended. It would seem fairly obvious to me that Charles and Diana’s marriage was doomed before it started. Camilla was a cause and not a symptom. If Diana was prepared to move on, why should everyone else continue to blame Camilla? It wouldn’t change what happened. I don’t think Charles had a wondering eye as you call it. He was in the wrong relationship.

Different if your DH had an affair later though, rather than an ongoing thing with a lover he has had for years. Carry on with her, and dupe you in the process.
Yes, Camilla was the cause. A main cause, even if there were other issues to overcome, she was a hard one to beat.
Diana was forced to move on though.

It's not Charles who had a wondering eye, it was Camilla's husband Parker Bowles.

Charles and Diana should never have married. As pp have said, Charles was cornered in to marrying her by the two families because they needed an heir and the Spencer’s were ambitious. He was never going to “understand and love her” because his heart was literally not in it. So no, I don’t think Camilla was the cause. The marriage was doomed before it began as I said previously. People are complicated and just blaming “the other woman” is facile.

@rubicscubicle

Camilla destroyed someone's marriage. MM sat there being black. Hardly comparable. What advise was she supposed to listen to? Keep your head down, cause it's shameful to be black? Because the vitriol started before her honeymoon and was relentless since.

Agree. I suppose Meghan should have known her place and not being hurt by racism. Thankfully a lot of people acknowledge that racism is violence, it’s soupy destroying and causes untold trauma to those on the receiving end. Being biracial & privileged doesn’t make it hurt less, some biracial people get the cushion of being so until the racists & purists come after them. We know this. This thread is about the harassment & cruelty the intent Klan & trolls continues to subject to Meghan, and good for HaM for floucing. I would too.

Soul destroying

Bouzy states that some of the twitter accounts who abuse Meghan are racist & coordinate to harass her. To me that’s from the ‘Klan’ & racists playbook. They don’t care that she is human & don’t this think she deserves any empathy from those who feel for her. These accounts know how to use the right words so beat the twitter algorithm & have avoided being banned . ( thankfully the report flagged some up & twitter had acted). Before this some were harassing her & any charity or person who they deemed was supportive of her. They went after her for petty things and elevated other members of the RF at her expense .

I was not a fan of the Oprah interview because I felt like HaM got out & should have not looked back . To me they should have focused on their new life & left the critics to what they do best. I’m not a fan of celebs confessionals about family but I understand why she felt she needed to correct some things. Michele Obama told how hurt she was by the racism & misogyny she faced & I supported her right to say what she needed to say. However I understand that POC/ black women are different and I won’t use MO to beat to beat M up . It’s hard out there sometimes so I get it.

I don’t think the type of people mentioned on this report will ever leave Meghan alone even if she was to renounce the title. Some of these types were the type of people who were so angry HaM’s daughter was added to line of succession.They have managed to monetize their anti Sussex commentary on YouTube etc . I suppose it’s good that some people from all over can see that HaM are better off in Cali. I personally think longterm it will be good for the British RF to not have HaM as working royals , the reduced monarchy can then focus on their work without the tabloids pitting royal women against each other.

The racism was well noticed worldwide. It was noticed enough by a group of MPs to write an open letter, so did a federation of Legal women and several people publicly criticised this racism

They didn’t, actually. The open letter written by the female MPs called out the press ion a number of issues, but racist coverage of the Duchess was not among them. They were a diverse and intelligent group of women who drafted and signed the letter, but it was very carefully worded and did not mention racism. Perhaps because they did not think that was a justifiable accusation to make?

(For the avoidance of doubt, I have no doubt that the Duchess met with racist attitudes from some people, and racist social media postings etc in her time in the UK, and still does. That is not the same thing however as saying that the mainstream media coverage she received was racist. There were plenty of other factors behind it, I think - classism, misogyny, anti-Americanism etc - much of which is also applied to other women in the Royal family. And some of it was justified criticism. Again, this also applies to others in the Royal family. The fact that Oprah had to doctor newspaper headlines to come up with a selection that looked bad also suggests that it wasn’t an accurate depiction of the situation. I am quite well aware, however, that this is a hill on which plenty of people want to die).

Tbh I think it’s sad that MP’s had to carefully word the letter not to include racism. Racism in some of the Britishpress towards M was transparent. Some reports were disgusting. For example, one which said they had a niggling feeling about an engagement photo, one said she failed the Mum test, or said she was straight out of Compton. It was very clear to some black people what these meant. It’s sad that they even needed to leave this out in the letter. Racists benefit from people being scared to call them out. Racists are always more offended by being called racist even when their words, conduct & out out racism is clear to everyone. They are ever so aggressive & will make one question themselves. The way racism is called out in Britain is different than say in America & South Africa for example. I’m comforted that at least in South Africa & sometimes in America most will call will call it out & not back off. There is not much fear of being attacked by the racists who hide behind coded language. It’s refreshing, & I think this is what M found so hard. There are everyday situations & lived experiences of black people who navigate spaces where racism is apparent. Some are scared to say anything for fear of being attacked , they fear being accused of playing the r card or being woke or virtue signaling. Kudos she left, because at least in America & elsewhere calling out racism is not a taboo plus you know you will have powerful & ordinary POC & allies from other races to support you.

one which said they had a niggling feeling about an engagement photo

Zuluqueen, from your posting history I have assumed you are not British. Do you realise that “niggling” is a perfectly ordinary word in British English, and “niggling doubts” also a perfectly usual phrase? (I mean, don’t take it from me, do a twitter search on the word/phrase and look for the latest tweets - you will see tweet after tweet of perfectly usual usages).

The 'Straight out of Compton' was one of the few racist comments I've seen. 'Niggling' is a perfectly acceptable way to describe having a persistent worry about a situation. Sarah Vine would not have used a word that sounded similar to an offensive slur if that was her intent.

There has been, and still is, a lot of projecting going on. One person's lived experience does not automatically equal another's.

I'm quite surprised at your praise for America at 'calling out racism', you can't have watched the news the last 18mths..

The UK is one of the most diverse and inclusive countries.

The issue here is Prince Harry's demands to have an overseas royal franchise and been told no. He has dressed up his resentment as all kinds of slurs and isms. He just didn't get his own way.

@Serenster

one which said they had a niggling feeling about an engagement photo

Zuluqueen, from your posting history I have assumed you are not British. Do you realise that “niggling” is a perfectly ordinary word in British English, and “niggling doubts” also a perfectly usual phrase? (I mean, don’t take it from me, do a twitter search on the word/phrase and look for the latest tweets - you will see tweet after tweet of perfectly usual usages).

@Serenster sorry you got from my posting history that I may not be British. I admit that name change when I post in the RF section of Mumsnet ever since I & other black posters were harassed by some HaM critics. But I’m very much British, I’m mixed race black & white. One parent British, one African. I spent part of my life in Africa & Britain, I live here now this is my home too. I speak a Bantu language, a Khoi language & English is my third one. Perhaps due to this It may seem that I don’t understand the origins of the word or phrase ‘niggling doubts’( maybe I don’t who knows🤷‍♀️). However it puzzles me why would one look at an innocent inoffensive engagement photo of a couple one of whom is POC and have ‘niggling’ doubts.Then go on to criticise the wardrobe etc etc . Life Experience, not just my own but of many other black people, show that they can spot coded language. Sure Sara Vine was perfectly entitled to use the word niggling, but why I am I not the only POC who picked up on this headline as a headline containing racial undertones. Black blogs & news outlets plus black commentary picked up on it. Why were some black / POC bothered by it, did they all cry wolf?. Sara Vine’s report was not racist but the headline was problematic, the word itself is innocent but as with anything else context matters & it would have been great to show sensitivity to M at the time.

I have actually seen my comments on this dissected elsewhere a while ago & it wasn’t pretty, so I’m glad we can have this conversation in a civil way😀

The UK is one of the most diverse and inclusive countries
Diverse maybe but inclusive - I don't agree with that. As you pointed out the last 18 months has exposed the divide not just in the US but UK too. In education, health and employment. I'm sure you will find it hard to agree but the majority of statistics show otherwise and this has been the norm for years so I'm not sure how the UK has suddenly turned this around. Not being as racist as your neighbour doesn't mean you are not racist.

@JaniieJones

The 'Straight out of Compton' was one of the few racist comments I've seen. 'Niggling' is a perfectly acceptable way to describe having a persistent worry about a situation. Sarah Vine would not have used a word that sounded similar to an offensive slur if that was her intent.

There has been, and still is, a lot of projecting going on. One person's lived experience does not automatically equal another's.

I'm quite surprised at your praise for America at 'calling out racism', you can't have watched the news the last 18mths..

The UK is one of the most diverse and inclusive countries.

The issue here is Prince Harry's demands to have an overseas royal franchise and been told no. He has dressed up his resentment as all kinds of slurs and isms. He just didn't get his own way.

Yes , I would praise America for the way black people feel confident & empowered to call out racism. My opinion of course, Britain is very tolerant & inclusive compared to most of Europe, I have been to Croatia & Italy and I was glad to be back home. Perhaps you would not understand what’s it’s like in the UK for a black person to feel very empowered to call out racism publicly especially in the media. It’s different than in US. Tbh this is not a conversation I feel can be had here. But there is an abundance of evidence from British black celebrities and ordinary folk out there talking about it. America is not perfect far from it and like you say the past 18 months show that. The comfort however is that AA have more robust representation, media etc etc to have their voices heard. In the UK of course everyone & anyone can call out injustices, but why did the Stephen Lawrence murder controversy drag on, his parents fought for so long & often alone for justice?. Why did the mum of Bibba & Nicole feel it was necessary to call out unfairness her family faced after her daughters were daughters?. No country is perfect at all I get that, saying I admire the way America ( and I mean mostly POC) deal with issues mentioned does not mean I shouldn’t criticise Britain. It’s my home and have every right not to be happy with her sometimes just like every other citizen. I shouldn’t have to justify it.

Thanks for your detailed post, Zuluqueen.

I haven’t read Sarah Vine’s article for many years, but I do genuinely think that Meghan’s engagement photo shoot was a notable departure from what had been established as the norm in the British Royal family. They were stunning photos, but were editorial in style, and some featured Meghan in an extremely expensive couture (said to be £70,000) Ralph & Russo dress.

You, and many others, will have said “Why not? She is American, where having a glamorous engagement photo shoot is totally the norm. She’s, not British, she has her own money, why shouldn’t she?”. And that’s fine - I said/thought pretty much that at the time myself. But undeniably, glamorous shoots in evening gowns were very much not the norm of the family she was declaring her intention to join - her predecessors had worn off the rack/high street brands (while showing their hugely expensive engagement rings for photos of course - but that is the uneasy tightrope they walk here). And to my knowledge, “dressed up to nines” engagement photoshoots are not really a British tradition either.

So I can see how people would have looked at the photos at the time and thought that they were lovely, but they looked more celebrity and American than royal family. And wondering if Meghan really understood what she was signing up for. And how difficult she might find it to adapt to a wholly different culture.

As for people seeing the headline and reacting to it as a coded slur - well, I think some of those responses were because that was how various international media chose to interpret it. US Vogue certainly did so (despite having previously used the phrase “niggling doubts” itself in its own content).

The word actually came into English from Old Norse a long long time before any other associations. I mean to be honest, Niger and Nigeria are far more problematic than niggling, as they come from the exact same derivation as the actual N word. But we accept that those are appropriately used in context, and not because the user has an ulterior motive. It doesn’t mean that some commentator somewhere couldn’t say they were provocative, though.

meant after her daughters were murdered. Ffs I type from my phone so it doesn’t help sometimes I get that it’s mostly seems like I can’t write in English but meh!

The 'Straight out of Compton' was one of the few racist comments I've seen.
This is part of the problem - how many do you need to see before you can accept that M did receive racial
Abuse from the media ,2,3 or 23?
Did you miss the BBC news when Danny Baker tweeted a picture of a monkey and likened this to Archie? Or is this not real racism only alleged ? - is this because of her class / or because she is American? Or does it have to be in your face blatant and not underhand. and whoever it was wearing the brooch to M&H engagement - is that about class or is it racism? Racists can always find excuses for their behaviour.

@Serenter you learn something new everyday, I didn’t know about the Niger & Nigeria😳. Im from Southern Africa & was ignorant about this. This will make an interesting conversation with my Yoruba friend over 🍷 so will read more on it.

About the engagement photos, at the time I didn’t even think much about them, I didn’t know about the costing of RF women’s clothes by tabloids then so I was a bit surprised. I loved William & Kate’s wedding , I remember when I got married a few years later and I wanted I had a ring like hers but my mum refused saying I will hate it years later for being a copycat😭. I wanted a dress like hers but then I’m only 5’1 so I would have looked funny🙈. I’m not into fashion so the idea that royal women and celebrities clothes are dissected and costed has always amused me to be honest.
On the whole I believe there is much to criticise HaM or Meghan for as they are only human and not perfect. I have giggled & criticised her for some things( like the wild camping in Africa , when really they were glamping in a luxurious 6k a night tent). I just feel that some of the British press went way overboard & were relentless in their criticism and lines were crossed, harm was done. I feel at some point especially when she was pregnant they should have backed off a bit, instead it became too much for some of us to even look away. It was not normal, it seemed too cruel & inhumane. Now that HaM have left, it’s better of course but they sell so there is always going Uk be interest I suppose.

@Serenster they use the phrase ' outdated colonial undertone'. Everyone knows this means racist, but as @Zuluqueen has stated in the UK, we don't call out racism outright. But that is exactly what they meant. This phrase is never used in reference to white people.

Anyway, my main point is that it was despicable that a group of MPs would say something and the people closest to MM kept quiet. MM said her mum and friends had been in tears. It was heartbreaking to a lot of people as strangers, let alone for her family. It prompted these letters to be written, yet the RF said absolutely nothing.

Sarah Vine is a reporter, she knew exactly what she was doing using this word. Her job is wordplay.

Not too sure why you talk about Niger and Nigeria. Black is the word in Spanish and Latin. It's irrelevant how American racist use it as a slur. SV carefully chose this specific word on purpose.

As for the outfits, ofcouse people will wonder why MM is singled out for expensive outfits when her sister in law is allowed. KM's wedding dress cost a whopping 250K. The dresses are iconic on pictures of souvenirs etc. and may well end up in the museum like Diana's or go to children or grandchildren like Bea's wedding dress. But people will wonder why this is not recognised about MM specifically, after all 'colonial' history dictates that black people are not good enough to wear such expensive outfits.

So are you saying Meghan was not ever subjected to racism in any way, shape or form since she got together with Harry?
Genuine question.

Nope. There are of course trolls on sm and yes she will have received racist abuse.

Not from Sarah Vine though and not from the general public. They were/are unpopular because of their petulant behaviour and demands wanting their own royal show. Harry has rewritten history and decided it was all racism because its easier that way isn't it. Absolves him of any responsibility.

It's hard to explain to someone who refuses to see something right in front of them.

As for Sarah Vine, bless your little cotton socks if you think she does not know how to cherry pic her words to influence and drip feed subtle little words. Well after all she and the DM seem to have stealthily influenced you.

As. for demands etc. what were you disliking H&M for before the interview ,which is your anchor to hold on to right now. What were they unpopular for back in 2019 before they decided to leave.

Quite convenient to differentiate the dress as for a wedding. Obviously they were given budgets and MM decided not to blow hers in one dress after all the engagement was a classic, timeless event with memorable photos that remain at the forefront just like Di and KM's engagement.

What do you want her to do, wear rags? Or maybe you want her to wear Primark, so the papers can tell us how she supports sweatshops and child labour under cruel conditions.

It's exhausting!
Even when presented with it in black and white as well as facts in the OP some will never concede that MM received racist abuse. What is in plain site for everyone else they find excuses for. I'm not sure if it is genuine lack of awareness in what racism is or just plain ignorance.

It's ok to where a £250k wedding dress once but not an expensive engagement dress ?? "That's ok because it was her wedding" if it had been the other way round you would still have found a flimsy excuse.

Some more differences to consider

www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/bazaar-brides/gmp13937570/differences-between-two-royal-engagement-william-kate-meghan-harry/

'What do you want her to do, wear rags? Or maybe you want her to wear Primark'

Well no but a 50k dress for engagement shots seems at odds with her 'end poverty' virtue signalling shopping bag, no?

Anyway, we can all but agree to disagree. They wanted their own way and didn't get it hence the flounce and the LA US Duke and Duchess franchise. I'll give Haz his due he has spun it well for the Americans who have lapped it all up.