Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The royal family

Prince Andrew has bolted to Balmoral

999 replies

Viviennemary · 08/09/2021 10:30

This according to guess who. The DM of course. To avoid getting papers served says the article. Maybe he's just gone for a nice break. Accompanied by Fergie.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
CathyorClaire · 08/09/2021 21:06

Charles would be ruthless with Andrew

Charles is going to be ruthless with a lot of them.

The notion plays well with the plebs while not affecting his own lavish lifestyle one iota.

PeriWrinkles · 08/09/2021 21:10

@SpamThief

Charles would be ruthless with Andrew. I don't sense a lot of fraternal affection there. Gawd knows why Andrew is mamma's favourite, he seems lacking in any kind of charm.
I think she admires his flawless diplomacy and the way he's raised Britain's profile so effectively thanks to his interesting friends. Libyan gun smugglers for instance.
PeriWrinkles · 08/09/2021 21:26

@CathyorClaire

I imagine that is what he would tell the FBI and may do so when he's ready

This year, next year, some time, never?

The nation watched enthralled as he promised to answer questions with the relevant authorities.

He's stalled,obfuscated and now scuttled once again to the shelter of mummy's skirts where the nasty men can't get him.

When do you think he'll be ready to spill?

Won't, ever.

Like Scorch the ferret: "though he is quite capable of communicating with other animals ... He merely remains silent because he prefers not to say words. In his spare time, he also enjoys being pampered by Cruella and living the good life in her mansion".

Roussette · 08/09/2021 21:31

I think this is barrel-scraping. If there's anything to be served at this point, it'll still reach him

Not barrel scraping. This is a member of the Rf, a close member, who is dodging and diving and avoiding having a lawsuit served on him by the NY Justice Department. Let that sink in.
Someone said 'who cares?'

Well... I care.

A fully funded member of the RF who has been friends for 40 years with a woman accused of sex trafficking of minors (some as young as 14) and a friend of a convicted felon convicted of the same offence and awaiting trial of far worse and more serious offences until he took the Fred West way out.

Oh ... and... when questioned if he regretted the friendship in interview, he answer was No.

Roussette · 08/09/2021 21:36

He denies knowing the young woman who accuses him

Course he does.

What do you expect? He's never had to answer to anybody about anything

Serenster · 08/09/2021 21:44

Equally Rousette I think every single person involved in a legal process is completely entitled to use the defences and tactics available to them when bringing and defending a claim. If Andrew should have a level playing field against him, in that he has to defend the claim by the book, by the same token he should have all the options any other defendant has available to them too. Whether that suits you, or any others outside of the process really doesn’t matter. A right to due process is only a right if it’s universal.

Serenster · 08/09/2021 21:47

It’s also not being served by the New York Justice Department. This is a civil suit, it is being served by Virginia Roberts.

Roussette · 08/09/2021 21:57

Serenster never said he's not entitled to justice.
Maybe facing up to it like a man might count in his favour?
Instead of dodging from palace to palace

VG's lawsuit us filed in a NY federal court.
You're splitting hairs

Serenster · 08/09/2021 22:06

No I’m not, I’m simply being accurate about the process involved. Confusing this with some kind of State action helps no-one.

I also don’t think very much of the sneering at someone who is not doing anything wrong in the face of a claimant who had engaged at what is known as “forum shopping”. If she is to be allowed to do this, he is allowed to defend himself, and so he is doing.

Serenster · 08/09/2021 22:11

By the way, the Mirror has an article out suggesting Andrew thinks this will all just blow over - I think he’s delusional, and even if this claim is resolved in his favour he’s still hopelessly compromised by his past relationship with Epstein. But that doesn’t mean I think he should take the steps any other defendant would take in relation to the claim.

Roussette · 08/09/2021 22:28

OK a lawsuit filed by VG in a NY federal court. Hope that suffices

Could you tell me where he's defending himself?
He isn't. Apart from the laughable carcrash interview.
He's avoiding any defence by hiding away in royal palaces.

You obviously have no time for VG. Do you know much about her,?
And the life she endured before Maxwell manipulated her into Epstein's world ?
It's worth knowing
I believe her

I have no idea what 'forum shopping' is.

Let PA defend himself through legal process, I'm waiting......

Farfalle88 · 08/09/2021 22:37

I just find it so odd that his ex wife is with him. What a very strange arrangement they have.

Serenster · 08/09/2021 23:01

You are making an awful lot of assumptions about me there Rousette.

Fine, I’ll be precise since you object to me using “defend” as a catch-all term. What Andrew is doing is basically not accepting service of the claim. This is not at all uncommon. No defendant has any moral obligation to say “yes please, do give me your documents”. Litigation is a costly and hotly contested process. It is highly tactical, for both claimant and defendant. Cross-jurisdictional litigation doubly so. There is no “behaving like a man” here and that’s a pretty odd thing to say. No lawyer would ever say to your client “yeah, let’s give up a positional advantage here so you look more manly”.

Not accepting service of a claim is the most basic thing a defendant can do to make life a bit harder for the claimant (who is likewise trying to make life hard for them). The next step would be for him, once served, to file a “forum non conveniens” application - essentially taking the position that the New York court is not the appropriate forum to hear this claim.

This is possible because Ms Robert’s has filed a claim against Andrew in New York. The basic rule is that the New York court does not have jurisdiction over someone who does not live there. Andrew quite obviously lives on the other side of the Atlantic. So she will have to prove this case falls within its “long arm jurisdiction” - i.e. the case has sufficient links to New York State to override the usual rule that it’s not fair to sue someone where they don’t live.

She has set out the barebones of how she meets this test in her claim - it states that on one occasion Andrew sexually abused her in New York. But that’s literally all it says. She will have to provide considerably more evidence than that to defeat a forum non conveniens application. Date, time, location, corroborating evidence etc. And meet the relevant standard of proof.

The other point to bear in mind is that this claim was filed on the last day she was eligible to take advantage of a New York law that extended the time limits for victims of sexual assault to seek damages. So, Ms Roberts has filed a barebones claim in a New York court, with no adequate particulars of the key allegations, seeking damages against a citizen of a wholly different country to take advantage of a law not available to her in the other jurisdictions where she also alleges he assaulted her. That is forum shopping: filing a claim somewhere with no connection with the defendant to take advantage of favourable legal conditions there. It is generally frowned on by courts because it’s seen as potentially unfair to defendants.

I would also note that by making a big press splash of the claim as soon as it was filed Ms Roberts gives the impression that this whole process is designed to force a speedy and presumably large settlement from Prince Andrew (betting essentially he’ll pay up to avoid this dragging out and causing years of bad publicity). I am not fond of the idea of doing this while criminal investigations are also ongoing - it runs a risk of being an abuse of process. In an ideal world a court would stay the civil claim pending the FBI investigation’s conclusion.

Also, I have actually read pretty much all of Virginia Roberts past court proceedings. I have every sympathy with her as someone who spent her teenage years being manipulated and abused by those around her. I don’t think that requires me to applaud all her actions though? I have never been fond of sharp litigation practice, personally.

Viviennemary · 08/09/2021 23:29

I dont think this will come to anything. I dont see how a civil case filed in New York will hold any weight here. Probably hoping for an out of court settlement from Andrew to avoid the bad publicity.

OP posts:
TheGirlCat · 09/09/2021 01:33

@Plumtree391

'Allegedly' to avoid having papers served on him. There could be all sorts of reasons why he has gone to Scotland.

Anyway who cares?

Maybe the victim cares.
Plumtree391 · 09/09/2021 01:40

@Farfalle88

I just find it so odd that his ex wife is with him. What a very strange arrangement they have.
Everyone thinks that but it works for them. I remember when they got together and then married, both mid twenties. They were then very attractive and good fun. He'd wanted to meet someone and settle down and they really did fall for each other. However Andrew was in the navy, that was his career to which he was committed, away a lot of the time which meant Sarah, and eventually their two children, were left at home resulting in her being lonely. She played away making scandalous headlines and eventually they divorced.

However they agreed to amicably co-parent and, basically, still cared very much for each other. He resigned from the Navy. It has worked well for them and their children, neither has ever met anyone else who compares to what they have.

If they hadn't been royals, there would have been no scandalous headlines about 'Fergie' and, who knows, they may have resolved things and never divorced.

The media has a lot to answer for, I take everything I read with a pinch of salt.

Roussette · 09/09/2021 04:06

Gosh Setenster what can I say, I feel I've had a crash course on the ins and outs of filing lawsuits, I bow to your superior knowledge.
I don't mean that sarcastically, I'm impressed and obviously there is nothing I can argue back with without making myself look idiotic

Except...the manly bit is a turn of phrase, we all use them. he will eventually have to answer something somewhere. And the optics for him aren't looking good, it just fires the press up even more with his to-ing and fro-ing between palaces.
Also, on the filing on the last day, surely that's because they had tried every which way to procure co-operation from PA before and this was a last resort. They were met with silence (despite his assertions/lies to the contrary)

You might not like this lawsuit but to an obvious layman in legal matters like me, I admire her tenacity and as she's said before it's for all the other victims too. She is known and she's using her name.

Yes I agree Plum on the Sarah PA scenario. She is his biggest cheerleader, I just think her nauseous praise for him is inappropriate at times.
But they are obviously happy in their arrangement.

dontyouwish2 · 09/09/2021 09:51

The crime was committed in New York, no matter that the accused lives somewhere else. So I do not see this as forum shopping.

"Forum shopping refers to the practice of choosing the court or jurisdiction that has the most favorable rules or laws for the position being advocated. A party can forum shop when more than one court has jurisdiction over the dispute, choosing the court that gives it an advantage over the opposing party."

Even if she was, good on her, she is the victim here. It is disgusting and shameful for the accused to make life hard for the victim. And yes, if it was a case of a (still)child being accused, I would not cheer on the adult who abused them for using the law to get away with it and make life hard for the victim. In both a sexual case and any other crime, I would prefer the accused to show remorse instead of making the life hard for the victims.

dontyouwish2 · 09/09/2021 09:58

Andrew can tell us he did not know her or say he was at Pizza Express. There is a witness who remembers him at the club and has contacted VG lawyers and said they could forward her contacts to the FBI, she is willing to testify. She remembers as she never met a royal before or after that. I am betting she was with someone at the time too.

The caretaker at Lolita Island also said he saw a half naked VG with Andrew at the swimming pool, but the FBI only showed him recent pictures of VG, so he was not sure, but knows it was her now he has seen pics of her at that time, as she was a regular.
Maybe the FBI should revisit their witness list with the old pics of the girls.

  • as a side note, while I can understand that the club probably deleted all footage from that night due to time, I wonder if anyone actually took a pic of Andrew with VG and decided to make a bit of money by sending it straight to the Palace for a bit of cash. This came to mind when I remember how someone sent Benny Eccleston pics of his daughter fiancé at a sex party (it was not declared, but surely the person asked for compensation)
upinaballoon · 09/09/2021 10:26

The term 'sexual assault' was used in a case in a local paper. A man had touched the thighs of two under-age girls. Am I right in thinking that the term covers a very wide indeed set of actions? No, I'm not saying any of them are ok, I am simply musing that it seems to be a very wide term.

Serenster · 09/09/2021 12:26

Under UK law, sexual assault is when a person is coerced or physically forced to engage against their will, or when a person, male or female, touches another person sexually without their consent

Touching is widely defined and includes touching another person with any part of the body, or with anything else. The Court of Appeal has held that the touching of an individual’s clothing is sufficient to amount to ‘touching’ for the purposes of section 3.

The crime is cast more widely when it comes to children, as you would expect - non-contact activities, such as involving children in looking at, or in the production of, sexual images, watching sexual activities, and encouraging children to behave in sexually inappropriate ways are all caught under the legal definition.

@Rousette thanks for your comments. This is an area where I have a lot of experience personally!

@dontyouwish2 if you look at this case Ms Robert’s claim also includes an allegation that Prince Andrew sexually abused her in London (the one we all know about) and also in the US Virgin Islands. That’s three entirely separate jurisdictions, one of which is where the defendant lives. That is generally the “proper” jurisdiction to bring your claim, because the defendant does not get any choice in being pulled into a legal process, and it’s unfair to drag them into proceedings in a whole other country, where they will need to travel, appoint foreign lawyers etc etc.

The fact that Andrew has the right to claim the this is not the correct forum means it’s forum shopping on her part. It happens quite a bit with various US courts as they are often deemed to pay higher damages. One example involved a helicopter crash in Indonesia, where the victims were Japanese, and where the helicopter itself had been made in Europe. One of the victim’s families sued the helicopter manufacturer in Texas however, on the basis that the helicopter manufacturer happened to have a local maintenance office there. The reason for this was that Texas courts offered far higher damages to claimants in wrongful death cases than any other jurisdiction, so the claimants had gone looking for the best place to sue. That’s frowned on by the courts.

Admire her determination all you like - she is certainly doing everything she can to force a large settlement out of him.

derxa · 09/09/2021 14:53

,

QueenFreesia2021 · 09/09/2021 15:02

Million dollar question…what do you all think will happen in the end?

Velveteena · 09/09/2021 15:12

I don't think anything will happen in a legal sense. But I expect Andrew will continue to play a losing game in terms of public opinion. And then when Charles gets the top job he'll try and have him sidelined as much as possible. And Andrew will sulk and pout and continue to be an over-privileged lump with an obese ego until his final days. With Fergie by his side of course, hustling away.

ArabellaStrange · 09/09/2021 15:13

If I could track down and sue any of the men who slept with me when I was 17 and working as an escort, you can be damn well sure that I would.
The perverts deserve much worse, in my eyes.

Swipe left for the next trending thread