Omid Scodie says Meghan was wrong about Archie becoming a prince at birth

[artquejtion]

He has publicly stated that Meghan was incorrect about her understanding of the protocol around Archie becoming a Prince.

Considering Omid seems to the M & H unofficial spokesperson, it is more than likely that Meghan now realises this is the case and his skin colour would not have been a deciding factor in it.

it does make you wonder why Harry did not explain it to her ? did he just not have a clue about about Royal protocol and succession, maybe he never needed to understand it. . Or was he so desperate to get her to marry him that he fed her a load of bull, i.e. our kids will be princesses and princes. Did he hope he could convince the queen to change protocol for his family?

Please don't get this thread deleted with comments which MN don't like, I am beginning to suspect there are posters who purposely troll M & H threads to ensure MN will delete them, so there is never a discussion allowed to stand..

@SmallPrawnEnergy

Christ is this still being dragged up. Just get on with your own life ffs. You also don’t get to police who comments on threads.

well said

Also, Archie could have been Lord Dumbarton now, which is Harry’s courtesy title. If they wanted him to be a Prince, why not use that title now? Similar to what Edward has done with his children.

If you think someone is deliberately scribbling on threads in the hope of forcing them to be taken down, then report them (MNHQ have confirmed in the past that such stuff has happened, and that they will delete such posts)

The difference is though that Charlotte will one day be the King’s Sister (remember Princess Margaret?). The new rules have come about because of the longevity of the Queen. In the past Charlotte’a Dad or Grandad would already be the monarch

@Bessica1970

The difference is though that Charlotte will one day be the King’s Sister (remember Princess Margaret?). The new rules have come about because of the longevity of the Queen. In the past Charlotte’a Dad or Grandad would already be the monarch

By that point the difference won’t matter as all of Charles grandchildren (barring Charles pre-deceasing his mother) will be HRH Prince and Princess.

The new rule, that is only for William’s children and isn’t a fundamental changed to the LP’s, was brought in purely to prevent William’s eldest daughter, and the future Queen, having a lesser title to her younger brother should they have been born in that order.

@didofido

W & K's children will one day be grandchildren of the monarch. Then later, children of King W.

Archie & sister would be eligible for Prince and Princess titles when Charles becomes King. Will they have the nerve to ask for them now?

They won’t have to ask.

Unless there is a change to the LP’s before it happens then several title changes associated with their father and grandfather becoming King will be automatic - William will be Duke of Cornwall, William and Harry will both become HRH The Prince William/Henry and all of Charles’ grandchildren (as they’re all male line) will be HRH Prince/Princess.

It’ll simply be a case if the children of Harry use the titles.

I think someone would have to be remarkably obtuse not to see there is a difference between treating all DC within one nuclear family the same for Prince/ss (so all Cambridges the same) and differences between offspring of different nuclear families, even if same number of generations from monarch (eg the Wessexes v the Wales and Yorks - one could make the case that the Yorks were the anolmaly, and one that will not be repeated)

I suspect this is because there is a documentary going out on US TV this week which pulls apart the interview . I think it’s on Discovery but I’m not sure .

@EdithWeston

I think someone would have to be remarkably obtuse not to see there is a difference between treating all DC within one nuclear family the same for Prince/ss (so all Cambridges the same) and differences between offspring of different nuclear families, even if same number of generations from monarch (eg the Wessexes v the Wales and Yorks - one could make the case that the Yorks were the anolmaly, and one that will not be repeated)

The LP’s haven’t been changed so the York’s situation likely will be repeated.

Of William’s children George and Louis are both fully entitled to pass their titles on, and any children they have will be automatically entitled to HRH Prince/Princess when William becomes King, or if they are born after.

In fact the fact the 1917 LPs were not changed in a fundamental way, simply that specific LP’s were issued for William’s children, suggests that Charles (who undoubtedly would have been involved) did not plan to only have William’s children titled as that would have been the perfect time to create new LP’s to replace the 1917 ones.

variety.com/2021/tv/global/meghan-harry-recollections-may-vary-discovery-1234962937/

did not plan to only have William’s children titled long term I mean by that, as he could have changed it to only the children of the eldest child of the POW.

Personally I think the best option would have been to give none of the children titles until Charles becomes King

@GlencoraP

Personally I think the best option would have been to give none of the children titles until Charles becomes King

The problem with that is that it would have required a change.

The eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales is automatically HRH Prince.

I think they are so pissed off and miserable with the whole situation that they're imagining a slight where there is none. I wonder if Harry perhaps didn't understand the system either and therefore wasnt able to articulate it to Meghan. This seems to have been replicated over and over with a number of their complaints. For example the security issue. Since when has police security been attached to title? Prince Michael of Kent doesn't get security! They're annoyed about issues that just don't exist.

If you're going to be so furious about something that you're going to publicly rant about it on Oprah, at least make sure it's something real!

They're also so bloody saccharine about how much they love the queen, but still felt the need to complain about the titles (which are decided by the queen) and claim the lack of title was due to racism. So which is it, you respect her totally and think she's wonderful, or you think she's a horrible racist who thinks Archie is too brown to be a Prince?

Found via Google:

The Queen issued a new Letters Patent in 2012 ahead of the birth of Prince George to ensure that all the children of the Cambridges would be similarly titled as Prince and Princess, despite the rule usually only applying to the eldest son. This would have meant that, had Princess Charlotte been born before her brother, she would not have been a Princess, but instead Lady Charlotte Mountbatten-Windsor.

I think nowadays whatever people say in publicised videos of any kind, we have information readily available at our fingertips.

It goes to show that you do need to be careful with what you say because whatever you do say or any claims that you do make will be scrutinised and can easily debunked.

Chances are there are racial elements to how Meghan was treated. I wouldn’t be surprised at all. The tabloid coverage was sometimes also racist. With very little familial support, for whatever reason, apart from her mum, other relatives just weren’t there. Perhaps she wanted to shield them from media scrutiny? But she clearly didn’t have much support. Harry doesn’t seem like the brightest tool in the box, but he is very personable and has a great deal of emotional intelligence. He should have gotten her support and explained the protocols.

There were times when she just didn’t seem very aware of what she was supposed to do. Whether it’s linked to a culture class that some Americans just have the confidence without the actual know how and any information, that’s different to what is perceived, is not really adhere to, it’s clear that she didn’t have the support she needed.

Perhaps she should have taken a year out instead “hitting the ground” running. I don’t think she realised how little of an impact she can actually make from within the Royal Family or how much of an important role Harry can play as he is not as close to the line of succession as he once was. I don’t think Americans are aware of this. Whoever Harry married, he still would have eventually been sidelined. It’s just unfortunate that clearly there were racial elements at play as well from behind the scenes as well as in some of the media coverage.

The 2012 LPs are a one off tweak. The 1917 ones still stand so Harry’s children will still automatically be titled when Charles becomes king. It also means that George’s eldest son will still automatically be titled if he’s born while Charles is king, but his younger children won’t.

The 2012 one is very similar to the one George VI made to give the then Princess Elizabeth’s children titles. It applies only to that specific circumstance rather than being a long-term general change.

@SmallPrawnEnergy

Christ is this still being dragged up. Just get on with your own life ffs. You also don’t get to police who comments on threads.

Don't understand why someone should bother to post on a thread they consider is out-of-date & boring in order to tell those who ARE posting (and therefore presumably have something to say) to "get a life"

ExitChasedByABee I think your interpretation is broadly correct.

I don’t think anyone can deny that there were racist things in the press. The press have downplayed it and tried to wriggle out of it but it was there, and it shouldn’t have been. Oprah shouldn’t have mocked up those misleading headlines for the interview, it’s muddied the issue again.

MM often didn’t seem to know how to behave, what to wear etc. (Some of which was actually quite trivial). But a definite pattern. And as well as Harry she had dozens of staff whose whole job was to make her look and say and do the right things. Either a) they didn’t (unlikely), b) she didn’t understand (unlikely - she’s not an idiot), or c) she ignored them and did whatever she wanted. From the evidence available my money’s on c.

The title thing is a load of nonsense but I can imagine her being genuinely upset/enraged about it. She should have understood, but perhaps thought the rules were more flexible than they were. I don’t believe there was any racial element but she may have thought there was. She may have tried to think of a reason that would justify her feelings, make the RF look bad, and maybe even try and force them into changing the decision (if she did think that, it really underlines the fact that she didn’t understand how titles etc work). The ‘security’ thing is obvious rubbish but helps to make it seem that she wasn’t interested in the title for status reasons.

Of course Harry knew all about royal protocol about titles; it had been amply demonstrated throughout his own childhood by his great grandmother, grandfather, mother, father, stepmother, uncles, aunt and cousins.

After William had 3 children, Harry knew perfectly well that his own offspring were relegated to the dusty back shelf in a very distant attic. No palaces, no titles, no status, no protection officers; just like Mia, Savannah, Lucas, Lena, Isla.... the Queen's other greatgrandchildren.

@2bazookas

Of course Harry knew all about royal protocol about titles; it had been amply demonstrated throughout his own childhood by his great grandmother, grandfather, mother, father, stepmother, uncles, aunt and cousins.

After William had 3 children, Harry knew perfectly well that his own offspring were relegated to the dusty back shelf in a very distant attic. No palaces, no titles, no status, no protection officers; just like Mia, Savannah, Lucas, Lena, Isla.... the Queen's other greatgrandchildren.

There is no comparison between Harry’s children and the other great grandchildren as his will be the grandchildren of the monarch. They’ll always be more high profile than the great-grandchildren of the Queen.

Also protection officers has nothing to do with position and title and is purely based on need.

@MissLathbury I didn’t know Oprah did that. Seems a bit sensationalist. Yes, I agree whether she was told or not, it was clear she didn’t seem to be aware of what to do but definitely had a bucketful of confidence.

I was just waiting for the tide to turn just as it did for Kate but I really would have hoped the Royal Family addressed the racial aspects of the media coverage. But I do believe that there were many more layers of scrutiny when it came to Meghan, her race, her nationality and being compared to Kate who is now well-established and not always in a positive way. It must have been grating to read all of that. I wish Harry and Meghan didn’t read the sensationalist press but they did and took it to heart. They also seemed to make faux pas after faux pas and it just seemed like they were poorly advised, I think some of their advisers were American? I don’t know if it was true or not as some of which was later shown to be false or misconstrued, such as the renovations in Frogmore, but I remember it being reported that H&M hired Clinton’s election advisers and I remember thinking at that time that was a very odd choice to make as the palace have staff and apparently H&M were able to handpick some of their team just as William and Kate and others have done.

I also had no idea that Harry and Meghan were receiving death threats etc. I can see why they would require they would need security to be honest. It’s one thing for the spare to heir to fade into obscurity but marrying someone of a completely different race seems quite unprecedented in the Royal Family and I was excited by what that would mean for our country as a whole. I too had no idea about the amount of protocols and if I remember correctly, curtsying to QE2 even in private sounds a bit too much really. The fact Meghan just didn’t know, doesn’t sit well with me. Either she chose not to listen or she was not told at all, her unawareness has lead to many problems.

For the sake of their mental health, they apparently had to leave the country. The Royal Family seemingly in support of this decision. But since then they’ve made many, many poor decisions and makes me wonder if they just stayed in Frogmore, if things would have been better? After all, the Royals have plenty of private land to frolic around and we, the public, would be none the wiser. When it comes to making an impact, maybe even Harry had an overinflated perception of himself because of Invictus etc, reality is that it can be as dull as a dishwater and not every cause is going to be glamorous. I remember they didn’t want to stick to a few causes in their Instagram page and preferred to highlight many, many causes per week or something like that and apparently unfollowing some of the official Royal Family accounts did create a bit of a hoo-ha. Not to mention the fact that they had separate Instagram/Twitter handles just because William and Kate did, I remember eyebrows being raised then. Besides, there always seems to be have that rule, whether spoken or not, that the spare to the heir mainly supports but doesn’t take the limelight from the heir.

Really interesting discussion on this thread, thank you!

I remember saying to someone on the day their engagement was reported, “I hope she knows what she’s getting into!” I think we know the answer to that now.

Omid who?

Couldn't honestly give a stuff what he thinks or says, whoever he is.

Here’s an article about the headlines www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9359197/amp/ITV-forced-remove-headlines-doctored-smear-UK-press-Harry-Meghan-interview.html

It’s the DM, but has pics comparing real and altered headlines, which is quite helpful.

It’s appalling that Oprah/Harpo/CBS did this - it was a blatant attempt to make the UK press seem thoroughly racist, which is bad enough, but then allowed the press to pretend total innocence, which is even more damaging.

Yes I think Meghan was heavily scrutinised. Honestly, apart from an initial faux-naive racist flurry in the press, which presumably everyone except actual racists found despicable, I think her race played a minimal part in the scrutiny. Significant factors were that she was from the US, had already been married, had had a career which involved things like being a ‘suitcase girl’ and the Men’s Health burger grilling ad, which some in the RF probably frowned upon - lots of things that were simply due to her age and her having had a life before she met Harry.
Then as time went on there were her increasingly odd and dysfunctional family relationships, mainly with the white, Markle side (clearly she can’t be blamed for who her family are, but she handled her father badly), her self-promoting activities, and her apparent inability to follow royal protocol. It must be a living hell being a woman in the RF trying to keep your mouth shut and your head down when it feels like everyone is criticising you. But that’s part of the job. It is foolish to attract more attention by doing things that garner negative publicity.

@blacksax He seems to be the unofficial spokesperson for H&M. Also, he was co-author of H&M’s unofficial biography although there has been snippets of information in said biography which has caused doubts on how much influence H&M have had this unofficial biography.