HRH The Prince Philip Funeral

[IamnotH]

Watching on BBC 1. Wish Huw would shut up and let us listen to the bands/watch them March.

if a Celtic-style funeral is requested I will stand at all four points of the coffin and recite the Gaelic Blessing (Deep peace of the running wave to you/ Deep peace of the flowing air to you/ Deep peace of the quiet earth to you/ Deep peace of the shining stars to you/ Deep peace of the gentle night to you)

Could I just point out in the interests of accuracy because a lot of people apparently believe this to be a traditional Irish blessing, possibly because it's used by C of E celebrants that this is not in fact any kind of Irish or Scottish blessing.

It is neo-druidic Celtic kitsch from a short story by William Sharp (1855-1905), writing as his female alter-ego Fiona McLeod (whom he pretended was a real, separate person, to the point of writing a fictional Who's Who entry for her, and getting his sister to do her handwriting, and actually having a full nervous breakdown over the deception when 'she' was offered a civil list pension for her work .)

The story is called 'The Amadan' (The Fool), and is about a depressed Hebridean fisherman who thinks he's a woman called Enya of the Dark Eyes, and is taken in by a blind man who speaks a 'spell' over him and heals him. As you do.

Those four lines are from the 'spell.' (Link in case you think I'm inventing this...)

archive.org/details/dominionofdreams00macliala/page/116/mode/2up?view=theater

I just think it's pretty odd the C of E trots out this stuff as 'traditional' without checking its sources. Especially as William Sharp was a member of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, a famously nutty secret society based on studying the occult, scrying, astral travel, alchemy where you were 'initiated' like the Freemasons -- and the 'spell' is specifically presented as non-Christian in the story. etc.

It's like using 'Expecto patronum' in a service.

I love the ‘deep peace’ Gaelic blessing schadey. If any blessing should be bestowed to anyone, it should be a blessing of peace.

Just read your post hare

I don’t think it would matter to me. I just love the words and what they would mean for me.

I don’t believe they were forced at all.

It has been well documented that William refused right up until the last minute and only agreed when Prince Phillip said he would walk with him.

But constitutionally the Queen is ultimately obliged to act on the advice of her Prime Minister.

This is not actually the case in all matters. She can choose to ignore the advice of prime ministers and has done so before.

Prince Philip was 15/16 I think when he walked behind his sister’s coffin so probably felt walking him with the boys would help them get through it.

I see no issue with the boys walking behind them but then I’ve been to several Cypriot funerals in Cyprus & they make you fairly immune to funerals here tbh.

it has been well documented that William refused right up until the last minute and only agreed when Prince Phillip said he would walk with him.

So he chose to walk with the loving support of his granda. It doesn’t sound though it was forced and I can’t imagine that PP would have forced him to do it at all. I can’t imagine any of the RF would have insisted on it.

I do believe the pressure for the walk originated with the public though.

"“Stop telling us what to do with those boys! They’ve lost their mother! You’re talking about them as if they are commodities. Have you any idea what they are going through?!”

Reputedly Philip to Tony Blair's people. Diana's brother wanted to be the only one walking behind the coffin, then Charles said he and the boys should. William refused until Philip said he'd go as well, and can be seen under Admiralty Arch when they move out of camera shot briefly putting his arm round William.

Looking back, and certainly comparing it to Saturday's funeral, Diana's was dreadful. I mean, Nicole Kidman? Eh? I know she was a young woman, and nothing had been planned, but it was such a hotchpotch. I bet her family look back and think "how did any of that happen?"

@SchadenfreudePersonified, very interesting thank you!

There's a lot of projection when it comes to funeral rites. What is normal and expected practice for some, is anathema to others.
So, I think it's over-stating it to call it "child abuse" for Diana's sons to walk behind her coffin, when in many cultures it is viewed as a sign of respect and perhaps as them watching over her on her last public 'outing.'
If William really was refusing to do so up until the last minute, then he could have continued his stance and I sincerely doubt anyone would have forced him. He changed his mind and was prepared to do it.

The general public and global media were screaming at the tops of their voices for the royals to "show us you care," when they were safely tucked up at Balmoral, keeping those boys well away from public scrutiny. They said that was their over-riding priority.
I don't think it's for us to judge and it's particularly bad form to blame the recently deceased Philip for it when no one really has any idea, apart from taking "The Crown" as gospel.

@BishopBrennansArse

Yep, C of E don't do 'smells and bells'

I can assure you that some churches do. I've been nearly choked by incense at many an Anglican service.

I was surprised there wasn’t more of a ‘funeral service’ but then I’m used to Catholic masses.

However I did read that prayers were said with the family in the private chapel before his coffin was brought out to the Landy so maybe that was the official stuff.

@CallmeHendricks

The general public and global media were screaming at the tops of their voices for the royals to "show us you care," when they were safely tucked up at Balmoral, keeping those boys well away from public scrutiny. They said that was their over-riding priority. I don't think it's for us to judge and it's particularly bad form to blame the recently deceased Philip for it when no one really has any idea, apart from taking "The Crown" as gospel.

Yes. I remember vividly that summer, and Diana went from "what the fuck is she doing now" to yes, total, utter, hysteria. It was very strange and quite difficult not to get caught up in it. I remember my then boyfriend ringing me from abroad and me thinking "humph, he didn't even ask me how I was coping with Diana's death!" Then I gave myself a good talking to.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I'll never forget the way Diana,s boys were forced to walk behind their mother's coffin in front of the world - such a barbaric act to force on the boys at such a young age. Brutal beyond words ... Charles should have manned up against his father and stopped this hideous child abuse

Totally agree about this; however while we'll never know if it was true or not, it was said at the time that it was done as protection for Charles in case anyone tried to "have a go" or even shoot him

I didn't think them walking at the funeral was awful but I did think them being paraded around looking at the flowers and having some strange people weeping and wailing at them was bloody awful, I don't think it was what the RF wanted, it was the Diana fanatics who didn't give a fuck what they were doing to 2 children who had lost their mother.

They should have been allowed to stay at Balmoral with their granny and grandad but the mob wouldn't accept that.

I hope people have had time to reflect on their inappropriate demands.

Absolutely ancientgran

Don’t think that’s quite right. There is room because that’s where the Queen and DofE are going. Apparently Princess Margaret had a horror of rotting away and chose to burn instead. I don't blame her. I'm Catholic, my family are usually buried but I want to be cremated. I had a nightmare years ago where I woke up in the dark and then realised I was dead and in a coffin. My spirit couldn't leave until my body completely rotted away. It was the scariest nightmare I ever had and I said then, "creamation" definitely don't want that nightmare to come true. My hearts pounding now just thinking about it.

They should have been allowed to stay at Balmoral with their granny and grandad but the mob wouldn't accept that.

I think the mob would have been quietened and the Queen allowed to stay in Balmoral longer with H & W if the PR had been handled differently. Say if the Queen had broadcast a filmed statement earlier from Scotland, or there hadn't been the hesitation about lowering the flag. Yes, there were aspects of the public outpouring of grief that was ridiculously overblown but equally the RF didn't handle it well.

Yes it was terrible that they wanted to follow protocol with the flag and obviously the first thought for the Queen should have been what the mob wanted. Heaven forbid she be allowed to be with her grandchildren as obviously PR for the mob was so much more important.

And if there hadn’t been the ridiculous public outpouring there wouldn’t have been the need for PR to handle it.

I bet they were handling it just fine at Balmoral and shouldn’t have had to be called to account for flags, returning to London or anything else - their priority was for the boys.

But the public and press baying for a royal outpouring to match theirs influenced the outcome.

They should have been allowed to do so privately or at least until they were ready.

And yet I've seen many posters in these very boards slamming the RF for using PR to manage their image.

They can't win.

It wasn't that there was hesitation about lowering the flag. At the time no flag was flown on Buckingham Palace if the Queen wasn't there. There was no flag to lower, but the baying mob/press were demanding to see one. So the Union Flag was out up and flown at half mast.

The convention since then has been that the Union flag is flown when the Queen is not there, and the Royal Standard flown when she is.

I don't blame the Royal Family for being taken by surprise by the public hysteria after Diana died. I was too. I felt as if I was living in a foreign country. Obviously I was very sad to think of two young boys losing their mother so suddenly but other than that I wasn't personally upset at all. I had no urge to go to the Palace or sign a book of condolence. I was absolutely mystified by the huge numbers leaving celllophane-wrapped flowers to rot outside the Palace. It felt like an utterly pointless thing to do - wasting money and creating a huge mess for Westminster Council to clear up and send to landfill, so environmentally not good either. As someone said upthread, why not donate to a charity close to her heart, of which there were several - clearing landmines, or supporting AIDS victims? That would have left a lasting legacy.

Thank goodness my husband felt exactly as I did and we could share our bemusement at what was happening. It was an enormous relief when Private Eye came out. It took me some time to track a copy down, as W.H. Smith refused to stock that issue but what a relief to find other people who were also not overcome with emotion. They had a feature placing side by side copy from the first editions of the Sunday papers, which came out before news of the death had broken, and copy from the hastily amended later editions. The first editions were all laying into Diana for associating with Dodi Al Fayed and his father. The later editions portrayed her as a saint. Dreadful hypocrisy, from the industry that pays the papparazzi and had made millions from endless gossip and photos about her.

Bit rich to blame the Queen and Prince Philip for their efforts to keep the boys out of the public eye when a section of the public itself, egged on by the media, were laying into the Royal Family for not doing all their grieving in public and on camera. Extremely distasteful.

I was very, very upset when Princess Diana died. I worked in central London at that time and she was so involved with causes that i and my colleagues knew about.

It was perfectly understandable that many would identify with her in lots of ways.

It is understandable that people were upset. No one is saying that they shouldn’t have been. I’m sorry you were upset. But it went above and beyond being upset.

And the only people who had the right to be absolutely devastated did not get the luxury of being held in the bosie of their family at Balmoral, out of the public eye, to grieve as they wanted.

@genius1308

They're lead lined to preserve the body. Lead lined prevents any moisture getting in and slows the process . I thought the service was perfect, so beautiful in the current circumstances, but I did feel for the pall bearers (especially during the minutes silence). The coffin must be so heavy. Apparently princess Diana's weighed quarter of a ton. It's said that the Queen and Prince Phillip have exactly the same solid English oak, lead lined coffin, which were both made decades ago.

A member of the Bearer Party is definitely a job I wouldn't have wanted. As others have said with Winston Churchill's funeral it was a bit touch and go and at Diana's funeral there were a few breath holding wobbles, the bearers looked extremely strained at times, the sheer weight and navigating the steps must be a nightmare. The horror there would be if disaster did happen, although Prince Phillip seemed like the kind of character that would have found it wryly amusing.

I must admit I am not entirely convinced, having been to Althorp, that Diana is buried on that island in the middle of the Lake.

I don't blame the Royal Family for being taken by surprise by the public hysteria after Diana died. I was too. I felt as if I was living in a foreign country.

And I felt, watching from the US that I was seeing a UK that I did not recognize at all. Much of the commentary in US media had to do with the public reaction, rather than how the RF was handling it. I had quite a bit of sympathy for the RF; I think they were blindsided, and the media certainly didn't help.

Several people on here have referred to a gathering after the funeral as a wake. I'm Episcopalian (US version of the CofE), and the wake, or more properly called the vigil, is held before the funeral. It's a somber time, although there is some socializing (and in some churches it would be called "visitation" for that reason.) A gathering after the funeral where refreshments are served and where there is socializing is just called a reception. So I wonder is it common in the CofE to call the after gathering a "wake"?