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The royal family

Palace appoints external lawyers to probe MM bullying...

663 replies

Sprining · 14/03/2021 11:17

Last week, in the lead up to Meghan and Harry’s eagerly anticipated Oprah interview, Palace sources were quoted as saying that the Palace was “prepared to retaliate with fresh disclosures about the couple’s behaviour if the monarchy is attacked”.

Great, so what next

External lawyers to probe bullying by other royals?
External lawyers to probe racism within RF?
External lawyers to probe whether there was disability discrimination in denying support for mental health?
External lawyers to problem Andrews behaviour and whether it broke public code of conduct (not criminal investigation, but did he bring us into disrepute type of stuff)?

Is this a vendetta or is RF finally going to be be subject to public accountability?

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Mummyozzi · 21/03/2021 07:03

@DeepThinkingGirl

I think the investigation for Meghan’s behaviour should stand in the queue behind investigations of many questionable aspects of the palace.. including Prince Andrew and so on.

Jumping the queue says a lot about the palace and how they’re misusing the law to intimidate the couple. Not great in my opinion

Agree, it is deplorable that most of the UK is offended by Prince Andrew's interview and the allegations yet the palace has protected him. It also shows a lack of 'seperation of powers' between the police, politicians and the palace - the latter, in this case seems to have a lot of sway.

It defies common sense that an educated man, Prince Andrew, did not witness anything.

Epstein was convicted of sex trafficking girls as young as 14. The girls were in his residences. The Prince was accommodated in those residences during the time of those offences, multiple residences, multiple times. That he did not question who the girls were, what their relationship or employment duties were, meet the girls, notice their age, seems doubtful. That he didn't flag, report or question any of this but rather continued to reside and visit Epstein is quite strange. He's accused of sex acts with two of the girls and photographed embracing one of them in a residential home. At the very least he is potentially guilty of turning a blind eye to all of this and not alerting authorities to sex crimes.

That the palace aren't stripping him of all his titles and rights to royal residences and perks is deplorable. They have not even sent him to speak with Scotland yard.

Mummyozzi · 21/03/2021 07:05

Surely he didn't believe Epstein has 30 underage nieces that wore bikinis around the house and loved to give massages.

SoWhyNot · 21/03/2021 07:22

@DeepThinkingGirl

I think the investigation for Meghan’s behaviour should stand in the queue behind investigations of many questionable aspects of the palace.. including Prince Andrew and so on.

Jumping the queue says a lot about the palace and how they’re misusing the law to intimidate the couple. Not great in my opinion

Andrew is currently part of an FBI investigation. It isn’t appropriate for BP to investigate that and I really can’t see why people fail to understand that. As an employer, BP fired Andrew but any criminal activity is outside of their authority. He is still, and no matter what happens, part of their family because he was born into it.

A whistleblower went to the media about bullying taking place towards employees, because whistleblowing is excerpt from NDA, so of course it is completely appropriate for action to be taken about that. Why do you feel that’s jumping a queue? Ignoring the claims would be unacceptable.

Roussette · 21/03/2021 07:49

BP might well have 'fired' Andrew but they did not strip his military titles,appointments and patronages. Yet Harry's were. Is that fair? I don't think so. Neither undertake Royal duties, yet one is treated differently to the other. Double standards or what.

Mummyozzi yes I agree on the young girls. PA said he didn't really notice them and if he did he thought they were 'staff'. Laughable really. As I've said before there is footage of him at the door of the NY mansion letting out a very young looking girl who was running up the road after Epstein.

PA had enough arrogance to think the Maitlis interview would mean he could brush it under the carpet and we would swallow his BS. We're not that stupid, you non sweating man!

SoWhyNot · 21/03/2021 08:09

@Roussette

BP might well have 'fired' Andrew but they did not strip his military titles,appointments and patronages. Yet Harry's were. Is that fair? I don't think so. Neither undertake Royal duties, yet one is treated differently to the other. Double standards or what.

Mummyozzi yes I agree on the young girls. PA said he didn't really notice them and if he did he thought they were 'staff'. Laughable really. As I've said before there is footage of him at the door of the NY mansion letting out a very young looking girl who was running up the road after Epstein.

PA had enough arrogance to think the Maitlis interview would mean he could brush it under the carpet and we would swallow his BS. We're not that stupid, you non sweating man!

Harry’s weren’t stripped until after he had had the opportunity of a year away to decide whether he was returning. Presumably, Andrew’s aren’t until after the FBI have decided upon the action they will take. After all, you want fairness. So it’s only fair they both have the time off in between leaving, and having everything removed, otherwise it really would be double standards against Andrew and we couldn’t have that now, could we?!
Roussette · 21/03/2021 08:15

I've not heard of this 'time off in between leaving and having everything removed' bit.
Not anywhere have I seen that. Didn't know it was a criteria.

But I find the difference between Andrew and his activities and Harry and his incomparable.
For me, it is double standards.

Marmaladeagain · 21/03/2021 08:26

It is entirely appropriate to await the outcome of the court case before the disciplinary matters are acted on.

Documents which will be admissible and appropriate to supply as evidence for the bullying investigation where a NDA agreement is deemed worthless in the case of whistle blowing.

The bullying claims have been brought by a whistle blower due to the large number of unresolved complaints by the staff at the household.

Under employments law an NDA is disregarded under whistle blowing procedure and potentially explosive information may now arise.

www.acas.org.uk/non-disclosure-agreements

Malteser71 · 21/03/2021 08:54

I think they’re coming for Meghan, which she probably didn’t anticipate, but then, in my opinion, she thinks she’s cleverer than the establishment.

LadyWithLapdog · 21/03/2021 08:59

She won’t be cleverer than the whole establishment but she’s got her own knowledge of how things went and she’s defending that. Good luck to her. I wish H & M well.

Marmaladeagain · 21/03/2021 09:01

Unless MM has a useless legal team, then they would have obtained an injunction preventing the investigation into bullying until the court case with the father and newspaper were resolved.

It would be argued that due to her high profile and public interest it is inappropriate for the bullying procedures to be acted on in parallel with her case against her father. That her mental health and wellbeing would be impacted by having two investigations running parallel, that she may have miscarried due to the ongoing stress etc.

BP would want to avoid MM's solicitors using their refusal to hold off the investigation as more ammunition for MM to claim how unfairly she was treated whilst at BP etc.

Parallel investigations can be carried out involving police matters and disciplinary issues. However, with the unusual nature of a public case being brought by MM against the newspaper and her father then it would be best to avoid any potential conflict issues involving data privacy. As I say, NDA are not enforceable under whistle blowing in workplace - which is a good thing.

Below, is saying how rare it would be to legally prevent investigations in parallel and usually where someone has a public profile:
"It is rare for an employee to obtain injunctive relief in the course of disciplinary proceedings. Such cases are usually confined to the public sector where contractual disciplinary procedures and potentially career-ending allegations are more common."

It is no doubt why MM felt she had to move on "her version" prior to the bullying investigations picking up steam.

I understand why someone swayed by MM's need to be on worldwide TV last week trumped any normal conventions of decency regarding family conversations and family illness. However, those of us that like to weigh up timings/motivations/social conventions and take a wider view on an issue will MM's timing is directly after the court case and directly before BP move on the bullying.

I'm sure you'll still say PA should be investigated - that has been discussed at length - you do not prejudice a potential witness or perpetrator of a criminal investigation with an in-house BP investigation. Time will tell on that.

I think some are so used to watching TV they think everything is done and dusted in an hour's episode - things take a very long time involving serious claims - reason for that is so people don't make mistakes and prejudice situations.

Mummyozzi · 21/03/2021 10:46

@Marmaladeagain

Unless MM has a useless legal team, then they would have obtained an injunction preventing the investigation into bullying until the court case with the father and newspaper were resolved.

It would be argued that due to her high profile and public interest it is inappropriate for the bullying procedures to be acted on in parallel with her case against her father. That her mental health and wellbeing would be impacted by having two investigations running parallel, that she may have miscarried due to the ongoing stress etc.

BP would want to avoid MM's solicitors using their refusal to hold off the investigation as more ammunition for MM to claim how unfairly she was treated whilst at BP etc.

Parallel investigations can be carried out involving police matters and disciplinary issues. However, with the unusual nature of a public case being brought by MM against the newspaper and her father then it would be best to avoid any potential conflict issues involving data privacy. As I say, NDA are not enforceable under whistle blowing in workplace - which is a good thing.

Below, is saying how rare it would be to legally prevent investigations in parallel and usually where someone has a public profile:
"It is rare for an employee to obtain injunctive relief in the course of disciplinary proceedings. Such cases are usually confined to the public sector where contractual disciplinary procedures and potentially career-ending allegations are more common."

It is no doubt why MM felt she had to move on "her version" prior to the bullying investigations picking up steam.

I understand why someone swayed by MM's need to be on worldwide TV last week trumped any normal conventions of decency regarding family conversations and family illness. However, those of us that like to weigh up timings/motivations/social conventions and take a wider view on an issue will MM's timing is directly after the court case and directly before BP move on the bullying.

I'm sure you'll still say PA should be investigated - that has been discussed at length - you do not prejudice a potential witness or perpetrator of a criminal investigation with an in-house BP investigation. Time will tell on that.

I think some are so used to watching TV they think everything is done and dusted in an hour's episode - things take a very long time involving serious claims - reason for that is so people don't make mistakes and prejudice situations.

Do you have a legal background ?

The story about Meghan bullying was leaked to the press after her TV interview was announced, not before.

I believe that the reputations of more than just the royal family was at risk and worried about the Oprah interview. As it turned out the press team was at the centre of the stories about working with tabloids and throwing Megs under a bus. A lot of names and careers at stake.

It is entirely possible that upon hearing about the Oprah interview this bullying story was always in their arsenal. Either they decided to leak the email complaints about bullying after hearing about the Oprah interview or they encouraged people who had made verbal complaints to put it in writing in order to be eligible for compensation, and with a promise their names and reputations would be protected.

It's also entirely possible those complaints were tit for tat disagreements/she was simply difficult, that were labelled as 'bullying'. They're investigating internally so it's entirely possible we will get a statement that all has been resolved and all parties have come to a private agreement, whatever the outcome. Free souvenirs and lifetime invites to garden parties for everyone !

If it went to court then Meghan's lawyers would be involved in some capacity and filling in all the blanks to every accusation. That means the entire back story involving the inner workings and politics of every individual/royal/disagreement and what had roused here. We might finally find out who the institution is. Would be ten times worst than an interview.

It was an attempt to smear Meghan and he credibility and to some extent it worked in the UK and have the tabloids more ammunition to paint her as a narcissist.

If an entire institution was pedalling stories about me to protect other members of the RF including adulterers and PAndrew and women they deemed to be 'more special and protected' then I'd be a bully too ! Expecting me to trade in my right to a PR team that actually works for me, my public image and entire career to be their villain in the tabloids. If I had to stand behind PA on a balcony and had official men making me walk behind them and telling me what to do when I had traded my reputation, freedom and image to work for them....

I just imaginehow snobby, passive aggressive and political that would be and it's not like it would just be at work - your entire pregnancy and how you announce it, how you have your baby. Makes me feel sick and claustrophobic thinking about it.

I'd have told at least 3 sexist, old English men to jog on and not in those words. It would be intolerable especially being up against it on your own with hardly any support.

Sprining · 21/03/2021 10:46

@Marmaladeagain

Do you know what a whistleblower is?

I don’t think you do
Complaints that do not count as whistleblowing
Personal grievances (for example bullying, harassment, discrimination) are not covered by whistleblowing law, unless your particular case is in the public interest.

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Marmaladeagain · 21/03/2021 10:58

When the are a large number of bullying complaints it isn't an individual claim of bullying and should not be treated as workplace grievance.

Whistleblowing is entirely the correct term in MM's situation where a number of staff have not felt their individual claims were taken seriously and a whistleblower steps in to highlight that there was a culture of bullying by someone towards staff creating a bullying work place.

protect-advice.org.uk/bullying-and-whistleblowing/

"Other indicators that make bullying a whistleblowing issue

Other indicators for when concerns about bullying may engage the public interest is if it concerns a large number of employees and/or if it affects their rights in a significant way, such as high numbers of work-related stress. Additionally, a culture of bullying may have a wider impact on the public and to the services that the organisation provides. For instance, in a health setting this may affect the quality of care that is being provided by a team which in turn creates patient safety concerns, which would engage the public interest and should warrant a separate investigation.

For the well-being of staff and for the delivery of services, it is important for employers to understand when cultural issues in the workplace become a whistleblowing matter, and that they can identify this from complaints and grievances made by employees and act appropriately."

Sprining · 21/03/2021 11:08

No, the one against Mm is for 2-3 staff and it has no impact on public health, safety etc. She is not even a public employee and has no contractual relationship with anyone involved. That is a witch-hunt with no public interest, although some may have prurient interest

Arguably the one against Prince Charles could be in public interest as he is paid by us and is going to be future king. But it would need a strong argument to say why ACAS and employment tribunals are not explored as a normal and reasonable course.

And of course any one who goes to the ET risks their personal reputation and being considered unemployable, but that is our legal way of dealing with matters

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Sprining · 21/03/2021 11:09

I’m sorry but some posters and their views are bonkers. And scary that one woman can incite so much irrational hatred

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Mummyozzi · 21/03/2021 11:12

It seems she knows..

I just think it's odd timing that these complaints were made. They said the interview news brought up old memories. I find this really odd.

Also odd that a senior Press person leaked it to the Times. Clearly someone close to William - Knauf fronts his charity and has been with palace forever.

Why not just deal with it internally without telling the press if it wasn't about smearing her ?

Sprining · 21/03/2021 11:15

And finally from the gov uk guidance

“If you report your concern to the media, in most cases you’ll lose your whistleblowing law rights.”

Leaking ‘unnamed sources’ to the media and publicising your complainants name is utterly low and unsavoury.

really, the reasonable answer to this mess is to become. A Republic with proper legal scrutiny and oversight

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Sprining · 21/03/2021 11:16

Exactly @Mummyozzi

But as these threads show, they are plenty gullible happy to be RF apologists

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Marmaladeagain · 21/03/2021 11:18

it says "for example" public health.

If it comes out that BP didn't deal with complaints from staff that go beyond individuals then people would complain. They're damned if they do and they don't.

Stick to believing that MM just happened to put out her ill-timed Oprah show out coincidentally at the same time as BP are able to move on the bullying.

Doesn't change what will be known in time. Truth often isn't there in your face, it can take a while to unpick.

It isn't 2-3 staff.

It seems peculiar that you haven't realised that there are further people complaining that you don't know about yet due to NDA, you might not know the whole picture. Time will reveal.

Sprining · 21/03/2021 11:27

BP can hold a grievance process on any bullying claim whenever they like.

Employees can go you their Unions, ACAS and employment tribunals whenever they like.

To suddenly have an imperative to ‘investigate’ bullying just after H&M decide to have an interview smacks of intimidation and character smearing.

And to call these leaks from unnamed sources to smear Meghan as “whistleblowing” is insulting to people who really do blow the whistle on matters of public interest, often risking their lives.

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Sprining · 21/03/2021 11:30

Tbh, it is a lovely Sunday and I really don’t want to engage in inane discussions. It seems Royalty is a religion for some and who am I to counter that?

So whatever floats your boat, enjoy 😊

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Roussette · 21/03/2021 11:36

To suddenly have an imperative to ‘investigate’ bullying just after H&M decide to have an interview smacks of intimidation and character smearing

Course it is.
I have never seen it called 'whistleblowing' out there. Only now. On MN.
But I won't click on the DM so it wouldn't surprise me if they used that term. They will do anything to besmirch her.

I would like to think that this leak from Knauf will come back to bite them all on the arse because historical bullying will have to be investigated too.

If it was so so unusual to have anything like this ever between staff and the RF, I might feel differently. But there's been a culture of bullying from other royals before.

Roussette · 21/03/2021 11:38

Have a nice Sunday Sprining
I have a roast dinner cooking... can't wait! 😂

Samcro · 21/03/2021 11:43

the whole thing stinks.
so why did it take so long to come about? a year after H&M left. just before the interview is broadcast.
who was the whistleblower?i(i missed who they are)
I can't get my head round that people don't smell a rat.

Sprining · 21/03/2021 11:44

Thank you @Roussette. Enjoy your roast. Sounds delicious.

I’m off for a walk and then some gardening

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