What were Harry and Meghan hoping to achieve?

[HumousWhereTheHeartIs]

This is an honest question not a chance to bash anyone. I'm curious about why Harry and Meghan would do this and what the consequences could be. They must have realised the massive fall-out this would cause. This could be the end of Harry's relationship with his family. But for what? Sympathy? Increased profiles? Honesty?

@VanillaIce

On the title thing, surely the child becomes more of a target with one than without? Is she really saying she didn’t do the post-birth photo because he didn’t have a title?

I’d have preferred her to say “I had just given birth, the last thing I wanted was to do my hair, put on make-up and pose for the press.”

That is what people would have understood and sympathised with actually. Not some fabrication about titles and “no-one told me”.

I thought she made clear that because he was mixed race the security level was higher due to the rasist death threats more than someone who doesnt get racist death threads so there was even more reason for him to get given security

Meghan remind me of the entitled uni graduates who expect to be paid £££ as their first salary and only pick and chose the interesting tasks

I’d say that more about Harry.
He seemed quite outraged that they cut him off financially and he had to dip into his own deep pockets, interesting that they found someone else to pay initially. He could have paid for security for Archie but he’s grown up not ever having to consider who’s paying the bills, probably doesn’t realise that a grown man having to pay to support his own family is quite normal.

Disappointing that Oprah didn’t pull him up on this.

The glee with which she told the story about the secret wedding (that wasn’t) was particularly distasteful. All the people who lined the streets, threw parties, sat on their sofas waving flags and wishing them well - not to mention the hundreds who attended the wedding. Was she really laughing at all of them and saying “ha ha, fooled you.”

Not classy.

Controlling the narrative so the lies are called out and no longer continue to haunt them.

They have a baby daughter on the way and likely she might be of colour or have some features that indicate her mixed heritage and rightly they want to do what they can to do damage control before the world dares discuss their babies in a hurtful way anymore and ruin their newborn motherhood experience.

She is traumatised by her last experience and she has the right to do right by herself.

That’s why the world should learn to be kind to pregnant and new mothers.

They don’t have to think of the impact on the world anymore as they need to think about their babies. They’re their priority. The public and the adults in the institution aren’t their priority. They clearly think she should shut up and put up and so it’s their turn to do that too

Also if she was really struggling with her mental health during her pregnancy just aftr giving birth she still might not have been 100% , why should she be made to pose for a photo all smiles hiding her real feeling and thoughts. Basically faking

I'm not sure I believe everything that was said.

After all in regards to the depression ect, well she should have told her midwives as antinatle depression is a real and serious thing and they would have gotten help. Why did she need to tell the Palace. She's a grown woman not a child.

The media are sharks and take every opportunity to discredit anyone.

I think she just got out of her depth, got board of not working and wanted something different. Harry got dragged along.

What message does that send out

@Blueberries0112

Transcript About the prince part - :

Meghan: Separate from that, and what was happening behind closed doors was, you know, we knew I was pregnant. We now know it’s Archie, and it was a boy. We didn’t know any of that at the time. We can just talk about it as Archie now. And that was when they were saying they didn’t want him to be a prince or a princess — not knowing what the gender would be, which would be different from protocol — and that he wasn’t going to receive security.

Oprah: What?

Meghan: It was really hard.

Oprah: What do you mean?

Meghan: He wasn’t going to receive security. This went on for the last few months of our pregnancy, where I’m going, ‘Hold on a second’.

Oprah: That your son — and Harry, Prince Harry’s son was not going to receive security?

Meghan: That’s right, I know.

Oprah: How . . . but how does that work?

Meghan: How does that work? It’s like, ‘No, no, no. Look, because if he’s not going to be a prince, it’s like, OK, well, he needs to be safe, so we’re not saying don’t make him a prince or a princess — whatever it’s going to be . . .
‘But if you’re saying the title is what’s going to affect their protec-tion, we haven’t created this monster machine around us in terms of clickbait and tabloid fodder. You’ve allowed that to happen, which means our son needs to be safe’.

Oprah: So, how do they explain to you that your son, the grandson, the great-grandson of the Queen . . . 

Meghan: Mm-hmm.

Meg shocked the world when she admitted she was struggling in an interview with ITV's Tom Bradby
Meg shocked the world when she admitted she was struggling in an interview with ITV's Tom BradbyCredit: ITV
Oprah:  . . . is not going to have . . . he wasn’t going to be a prince? How did they tell you that? And what reasons did they give? And then say, ‘And so, therefore, you’re not . . . you don’t need protection’.

Meghan: There’s no explanation.

Oprah: Hmm.

Meghan: There’s no version. I mean, that’s the other piece of that . . . 

Oprah: Who tells you that?

Meghan: I heard a lot of it through Harry and then other parts of it through conversations with . . . 

Oprah: Mm-hmm.

Meghan:  . . . family members. And it was a decision that they felt was appropriate. And I thought, well . . . 

Oprah: Was the title . . . was him being called a prince, Archie being called a prince, was that important to you?

Meghan: If it meant he was going to be safe, then, of course. All the grandeur surrounding this stuff is an attachment that I don’t personally have, right? I’ve been a waitress, an actress, a princess, a duchess. I’ve always just still been Meghan, right? So, for me, I’m clear on who I am, independent of all that stuff. And the most important title I will ever have is Mom. I know that.

Meghan: But the idea of our son not being safe, and also the idea of the first member of colour in this family not being titled in the same way that other grandchildren would be . . .  You know, the other piece of that conversation is, there’s a convention — I forget if it was George V or George VI convention — that when you’re the grandchild of the monarch, so when Harry’s dad becomes king, automatically Archie and our next baby would become prince or princess, or whatever they were going to be.

Oprah: So, for you, it’s about protection and safety, not so much as what the . . . what the title means to the world.

Meghan: That’s a huge piece of it, but, I mean, but . . . 

Oprah:  . . . and that having the title gives you the safety and protection?

Meghan: Yeah, but also it’s not their right to take it away.

Oprah: Yeah.

Meghan: Right? And so, I think even with that convention I’m talking about, while I was pregnant, they said they want to change the convention for Archie.

Oprah: Mmm.

Meghan: Well, why?

Oprah: Did you get an answer?

Meghan: No.

Oprah: You still don’t have an answer?

Meghan: No.

Oprah: You know, we had heard — the world, those of us out here reading the things or hearing the things — that it was you and Harry who didn’t want Archie to have a prince title. So, you’re telling me that is not true?

Meghan: No, and it’s not our decision to make, right?

Oprah: Mm-hmm.

Meghan:  . . . even though I have a lot of clarity on what comes with the titles, good and bad — and from my experience, a lot of pain.

Oprah: Mm-hmm.

Meghan: I, again, wouldn’t wish pain on my child, but that is their birthright to then make a choice about.

Oprah: OK, so it feels to me like things started to change when you and Harry decided that you were not going to take the picture that had been a part of the tradition for years and . . . 

Meghan: We weren’t asked to take a picture. That’s also part of the spin, that was really damaging. I thought, ‘Can you just tell them the truth? Can you say to the world you’re not giving him a title, and we want to keep him safe, and that if he’s not a prince, then it’s not part of the tradition? Just tell people, and then they’ll understand?’

But Archie does have a title. He's the Earl of Dumbarton. They chose not to use that. And Archie doesn't need his own security while he's covereed by theirs. Either she doesn't know what she's on about, or she really doesn't care about talking crap because she know the American audience won't care abotu the detail - and she's only interested in America.

They have burned their boats in Britain. She may not care, but I think Harry will come to regret it very badly.

Anyone who attends a royal wedding surely understands it is a show for the public?

I dont understand the urgency with protection either - Archie is just a baby. He'd have fallen under his parents protection, surely, until he was school age anyway.

I think a lot of us would understand the concept of sticking with a job you hate to provide the essentials for your child.
Smiling and cutting ribbons might not be H &M's dream career, while putting up with irritating inlaws, but....
Accounts payable isnt my dream career either, but....

@lightand

Nith, But they've got millions already. I can't believe that they're scraping around to pay for security

Read on another thread that they are supposed to have somewhere between 10 million[not sure whether dollars or pounds] and 40 million.
Archie security apparently costs 2 million a year. Their money will run out at some point.

As they have a £11 million mansion I'm guessing that the higher of those figures applies. Given the upkeep costs of a place that size, they're obviously not too worried about their money running out.

I rather doubt that their money is under a bed earning nothing by way of dividends and interest, and they are currently coining it out of their various commercial activities.

I'm also sceptical about the £2m a year figure for security. If a security guard is paid a pretty high £50K a year, that would be 40 full time guards for three people who are together most of the time. Sure, some of the money will be going on surveillance equipment etc, but it still looks exaggerated.

@Plexie

To build a marketable brand that they can commercialise to create income.

The interview reminded me of those scam emails that contain grammatical errors and typos that are supposed to weed out on-the-ball people and ensnare the gullible. There were so many inconsistencies and contradictions that are obvious to UK viewers or anyone with a decent level of knowledge about the Royal Family, but are being swallowed by the more general American/worldwide audience. That's the audience they are aiming at, to portray an appearance of victimhood to elicit sympathy which they can trade on.

This seems spot on.

I don't understand why they can't just sort out their issues privately like every other family does.
I think they've done themselves a lot of damage which they will regret in time.

@BeforetheFlood

So, do you (general MN you) think it was a good idea?

I guess I can understand why they did it. Anyone who has been in an extended family situation and had that feeling of your in-laws slightly disapproving of you, or getting a bit bloody sick of hearing how wonderful your DH's brother's wife is, and how she's a lovely mum and Dniece is so advanced for her age and Dnephew was so brilliant in the Christmas play etc etc knows what it's like to feel overlooked, judged and undervalued, and thought - sod it, I don't really want this in my life or my kids' lives.

I can totally understand the withdrawal and making a new life on their terms, but I'm not sure that they haven't just brought all that negativity with them by doing this. The grenade they've chucked is going to change the landscape permanently and it seems risky to me. Are they going to be any happier in the wake of the changes? Or are they going to be caught up in the destruction just as much as the family they've sought to shake up.

Harry says he loves his father and brother and grandparents. Can you ever be happy knowing that you've deliberately and publicly hurt the people you love, even though you feel a sense of injustice at events of your family life?

I think this really hits the nail on the head. It’s not unusual to go NC with family and want people to know that you had good reasons to... but that’s usually much more clear cut and Harry came across as if there was still a lot of affection and regret that it has come to this.

It’s also no unusual to feel resentful of in-laws who you feel judge you unfairly, favour other grandchildren etc. My own in-laws are incredibly snobbish, FIL openly refers to me being an idiot, mocks my local accent when I meet his friends with “can you understand her?” in front of me. We are constantly reminded how exceptional their other grandchildren are. But.... my DD loves them, so I suck it up. As much as I might want to tell them to fuck off when they joke about Hitler having a way to deal with gypsies (I grew up in a caravan). Ultimately, their part of DD’s life and heritage. They still cherish her (just not as much as her better-bred, privately-schooled cousins) and if something were to happen to DH and I, would take care of her.

Whether you believe Harry and Meghan’s accounts or not... even if true, I feel that airing this on TV is not going to heal any wounds.

I do wonder how Harry feels, when he thinks about it in thr wee small hours.

He’s went from a very popular member of the royal family. With a good relationship with his family. Yes I’m sure there were sibling rivalries and moments of unhappiness, some arguments, every single human has that, but he loved the military and his work there, and clearly was close to his brother, Kate and his father and he was heavily supported.

And now he’s deeply unpopular, living a life in the us, chasing celebrity and cash, monetising his heritage, his family relationships are shattered, possibly beyond repair, snd he’s lost the roles dear to him, like his military ones.

And in such a short period of time.

He’s now on tv on the biggest global platform you can get, sitting there watching his wife accuse and attack his family, and joining in to a lesser extent, making accusations so damaging, for example that the head or future head of the common wealth are so so racist they’d deny Archie being a prince, simoly due to his ethnic make up.

From when he met Meghan, four short years ago, to now, it’s astonishing what’s happened. Literally astonishing, how badly this has fractured and his much his life has changed, and how he has lost his whole support network.

It’s four years. Just four years since they met. Seldom has anyone seen anything spiral and fracture quite so fast, so publicly and in such a toxic manner.

I think they wanted to get “their” truth out there.

Unfortunately in the long run this will do their profile in America more harm than good. If they’re willing to throw their own families under the bus like this, which A listers, Hollywood celebs or executives will trust them? All their relationships going forward will be on a superficial level only.

I think it’s obvious why they did it. For the two years MM was part of the royal family, she was subjected to relentless abuse from the tabloids which finally resulted in her feeling suicidal. There was no way that she could have been “prepared” for this treatment and it took a terrible toll on her, and Harry. Some of the press coverage was untrue in a very damaging way - for example the notorious story, constantly repeated, of her “leaving Kate in tears”, which made her sound bullying and aggressive. These untrue stories were not countered by the Palace despite their willingness to object very swiftly when other royals were attacked in the press. (for example, denying that Kate Middleton had had Botox and challenging the unfavourable article about her in Tatler - Catherine the Great.)

The sad fact is that people do believe what is written in the papers and MM’s popularity in the UK plummeted in the two years she was there as a result. The purpose of the interview was to finally allow them to speak out and defend themselves - after not being able to as part of the royal family. Meghan Markle’s reputation was trashed in public - she wanted to reach as large an audience as possible to reclaim it.

It is clear to me that she wants protection for Archie and raising it now because she has a baby girl coming and she is feeling frightened of what the world are going to do to scrutinise their baby and they feel like this is the royal family’s chance to do right by them and not let them down like last time.

In a normal family grandparents shouldn’t pick favorites. So that’s a lot for Harry to navigate. But ok royalty is different etc.. but bloodybhell even a non royal grandfather would do her best to ensure his grandchildren are not getting bullied.

Indifference is criminal. One way or another they need to try to show support and the fact they didn’t even say ANYTHING to Meghan shows a streak of misogyny or racism.

I don’t think it’s racism but I do think it’s misogyny.

They blamed her for getting together with Harry despite that they didn’t view them as a good match and they don’t want to welcome her and don’t want to celebrate her kids.

I think she is talking about after Charles become King.

The more I think about it the more angry I am at Harry. He sat there and whinged about us not paying for his security, in his multi million pound house, in their designer clothes and didn't acknowledge the difficulty and suffering of his people over the last year. The financial hardship for many, the heartbreaking losses of family members and friends, the people who've worked so hard to keep the country going.

He has no sense of duty or loyalty to this country, and no compassion. It's all poor me, me, me. The Royal Family are well shot of him.

What is it they say on Mumsnet - something like 'when someone shows you who they really are, believe them'. Well they showed us who they really are.

That transcript shows how deceiptful she is. I can't tell if she believes her own lies, she must do - what she says there just makes no sense, and she knows that Americans won't know that they are lies, but she must realise that British people and of course the royal family will know it's all lies. Surely she can't be so obtuse that she really doesn't understand how the titles/protection/etc work.
And then Meghan goes on to say/imply that her son was being denied a princehood and protection because of her race:

Oprah: You certainly must have had some conversations with Harry about it and have your own suspicions as to why they didn’t want to make Archie a prince. What are . . .  what are those thoughts? Why do you think that is? Do you think it’s because of his race?

Meghan: (Sighs)

Oprah: And I know that’s a loaded question, but . . . 

Meghan: But I can give you an honest answer. In those months when I was pregnant, all around this same time . . .  so we have in tandem the conversation of ‘He won’t be given security, he’s not going to be given a title’ and also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he’s born.

Oprah: What?

But he was given a title! They didn't want it. Talk about twisting the truth.

The term 'race-baiting' is unacceptable.

@Theunamedcat

A mess

Absolutely.