It was “, 'a bit naughty' to imply Archie 'couldn't be a prince because of the possible colour of his skin' when it was due to strict rules,...”

[RickiTarr]

Hugo Vickers made me laugh with his phrasing. So British to say “a bit naughty”.

Also, seriously high lights how many people don’t understand the rules or can’t explain the rules well, and no American has a hope of grasping our quaint & complicated rules and institutions, really.

Sorry, it’s the Daily Fail, but funny.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9340545/Why-Meghan-Markle-bit-naughty-referring-Archies-skin-colour-prince-discussion.html

[quote ancientgran]@RickiTarr Thanks, I did remember Andrew was upset. So it isn't automatic that a prince or princess gets security then.[/quote]
I don’t think the police protection rules are as set and codified as the rules about titles are. It certainly feels like it’s been debated on a case by case basis ever since the Way Ahead Group was set up, but I don’t think sex comes into it directly, or even indirectly as they scrapped male preference primogeniture before George was born. (So if Charlotte has been eldest, she would be a presumed future Queen now.)

I just thought about the sex as someone was saying princes get security and I said Princess Eugenie/Beatrice, obviously the aren't the same sex. I'd be pretty horrified if it was sex based in the 21st century.

I am interested to know what RF security actually is. Because in my head it means a few security guards around the place. But I would guess its a lot more complex than that- and therefore much more expensive.

I think I read somewhere security would be in the region of £4m but that might be tabloid speculation

They have chosen to permanently make a non-royal life in another country. They can't seriously expect the British taxpayers to pay for their security.

“They have chosen to permanently make a non-royal life in another country. They can't seriously expect the British taxpayers to pay for their security.“

They moved after the fact. I don’t think they expect it anymore.

What I'm getting is that H&M felt the palace was letting the media tear into them but protecting other members of the family. This was leading to a lot of online hate and death threats.

They might have coped with this if they felt Archie would be looked after in the future. But they were told that the rules were going to be changed when Charles was king to prevent Archie becoming a Prince. No title means no security.

They couldn't justify continuing on the way they were, being used as tabloid fodder, if their child was not going to be protected.

I am interested to know what RF security actually is. Because in my head it means a few security guards around the place. But I would guess its a lot more complex than that- and therefore much more expensive

Andrew's (another non working royal) is three round the clock security people costing £300,000 per year.
The Queen fought for him to keep that

@LarryUnderwood

I am interested to know what RF security actually is. Because in my head it means a few security guards around the place. But I would guess its a lot more complex than that- and therefore much more expensive.

SO14 Royalty Protection Group is a component of the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) Protection Command. SO14 is responsible for guarding the Royal Family and associated residences and consists of a number of sections, namely Personal and Close Protection, Residential Protection and the Special Escort Group.

@LarryUnderwood

I am interested to know what RF security actually is. Because in my head it means a few security guards around the place. But I would guess its a lot more complex than that- and therefore much more expensive.

The personal protection officers are from some kind of specially trained division of the Met, I think? They are attached to their principals 1:1.

Then more general patrolling police, police on the gates(?)

It was discussed a lot when Diana separated, divorced and then died. I can’t remember all the details.

SO14 Royalty Protection Group is a component of the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) Protection Command. SO14 is responsible for guarding the Royal Family and associated residences and consists of a number of sections, namely Personal and Close Protection, Residential Protection and the Special Escort Group.

That was quite a cross post.

and when out of country IPP (internationally protected persons) get full security. which falls on the host country. while in canada that would have been provided by the royal canadian mounted police at our expense. i believe i've read that security comes out of the queens expenses, not public funded when at home.
again i don't know why he/they would need more security than the duke of westminister.

Why does the comparison keep being made with the (new, young?) Duke of Westminster?

I’ve missed something there. What are his arrangements?

no clue what his arrangements are he's incredibly wealthy and i presume at huge risk, more so i would think than harry and megan and archie.

again i don't know why he/they would need more security than the duke of westminister

You don’t understand why a high profile member of the royal family recently targeted by neo-nazis would need more security than a guy most people couldn’t pick out a photo of?

Yes there’s a debate over the funding of it, but to pretend not to understand why security is needed by him is a bit disingenuous really.

why is he so high profile? honestly he really isn't.
if he and megan wanted to lead a simple life they certainly could.
maybe that's why they left vancouver island no one really cared that they were there.
as for security threats and neo nazi's...sure lets move to the USA...not really a bright move in all honesty.

Well in the US

They were offered temporary home and security
The president of the United States has said through his spokesperson that he commends M&H for speaking about their struggles

Hilary Clinton has said the same

So, yes, there is a recognition of the sly bullying and racism of the English variety.

Outright racism can be easier to deal with if you are wealthy. But the sly digs and put downs that are more common here can erode anyone’s mental health, there is no protection against it.

For example of sly racism, you need to look no further than this thread

Genuine question.

If one of Zara's children was on the cover of every newspaper, became briefly the most famous and controversial baby on the planet simply by existing, was being sent anthrax and death threats in the post, and was being targeted by white supremacist terrorist organisations, do you honestly think for a second the British Royal Family wouldn't immediately pull out all the stops to ensure that child had access to the very best security money can buy?

IMO Hugo Vickers is being "a bit naughty" to imply Meghan was upset Archie wasn't being given a title at birth, when the real upset was security and the fact the the Royal Family announced they wanted to change the law that would automatically make him a Prince once the Queen died and Archie's grandad was King (for no reason except they didn't want a mixed race prince), and the fact the Royal Family lied and pretended it was Harry&Meghan's choice to turn down titles.

@OhforaRainyDay

IMO Hugo Vickers is being "a bit naughty" to imply Meghan was upset Archie wasn't being given a title at birth, when the real upset was security and the fact the the Royal Family announced they wanted to change the law that would automatically make him a Prince once the Queen died and Archie's grandad was King (for no reason except they didn't want a mixed race prince), and the fact the Royal Family lied and pretended it was Harry&Meghan's choice to turn down titles.

Yes sorry I didn’t express it well (early hours, insomnia, high on painkillers).

I was laughing at him for his pomposity. Not with him. Not approving.

It was just so him and so DM, and although he was as technically right about the Letters Patent, his whole tone just muddied the issue and “bit naughty” seemed to summarise his whole attitude and for some opiate-tinged 3am reason I can’t quite recreate now, it really made me laugh.

Sorry. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Sprining that's nice of the US, as there is no racism there. Maybe they need to sort their own house out too.

@Sprining

Well in the US

They were offered temporary home and security
The president of the United States has said through his spokesperson that he commends M&H for speaking about their struggles

Hilary Clinton has said the same

So, yes, there is a recognition of the sly bullying and racism of the English variety.

Outright racism can be easier to deal with if you are wealthy. But the sly digs and put downs that are more common here can erode anyone’s mental health, there is no protection against it.

For example of sly racism, you need to look no further than this thread

We’re certainly not perfect. We’re a fuck of a lot better than Los Angeles, though, and Hilary can go away and do something useful Stateside.

Oh and Biden.

Disappointing. I like Clinton & Biden, but all I’ve learnt all day today across the internet is that Americans do not understand our democratic monarchy or how it operates.

Lots of very well intentioned, intelligent Americans posting things that prove they don’t understand. Don’t understand British reserve. Don’t understand the monarchy has been making internal reforms since the 90s to preserve its popular support. Just don’t understand the background.

Which isn’t to say there are big issues that need addressing, but the majority of commentators aren’t aware of the context and background. (A lot of Brits dont either TBH - especially younger ones.)

All of that is fine, but ask us, don’t keep telling us you know our system and our culture better than we do when you clearly don’t.

I meant to say I know there ARE big issues that need to be addressed including a too-white palace staff and pockets of racism in the monarchy.