Thread 18?

[Froq]

I go away for the weekend and thread 17 disappears

March isn’t too far away now. Will we see their return for the commonwealth service?

Have they found a new home yet?

Will they make an appearance at Beatrice’s wedding?

It must be a blow to be forbidden - on the Queen’s orders - to use the “Sussex Royal” embroidery. Quite correct that they should be shown who really boss.

CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate

I don't honestly see how it's better

No one tells you what to do? Or more importantly what you can't do.

You cannot have a good in both camps. That is what they are now learning.

Damn autocorrect.

...a foot in both camps...

I don't think I've misunderstood anything. I don't know if being transatlantic from pre-marriage was their intention or not. I focused on the bit where you said to go under good terms, no real drama, when how they did it was always going to result in drama. How could they have thought it wouldn't?

I think it was their medium-term/long-term game plan and to go under good terms, no real drama, with the consent of HMQ. So what changed? If this was their game plan how did they handle it so badly? They didn't go under good terms, created drama and didn't get the consent of the queen until after they'd announced it all.

So what changed?

It's been reported that one of the papers (can't remember which) had the story and was about to publish it, so Harry and Meghan decided to preempt that scoop.

Oh yes, I remember now Framboise but even so.

They still shouldn't have handled it the way they did. They should have let the Sun report it. The RF would have had to acted quicker to sort it out. The way they did it undermined the queen and made themselves look arrogant and eventually fools when they didn't get what they wanted and assumed they would. It looked like they'd held a gun to the queen's head.

The only reasoning I can come up with is they didn't want to take advice but they didn't do their own thinking either. They acted.

Action can be mistaken for strength. (I recognise "Feel the fear and do it anyway" can be powerful, but perhaps more so if you are prone to over analysis!)

Ok I’ll try and explain what I meant.
Obviously this is speculation on my part.

Pre-marriage, I think they agreed to become trans-Atlantic a few years or so after marriage, with no intent to step down from being senior royals. At this point, I think they had no intention to go under a cloud or with any negative drama.

Post-marriage: things went down. Relations with the RF soured and became strained. They found themselves more restricted generally then they though they’d be. They found the press bad & intrusive. They though fuck it, we’re pulling the rip-cord and instigating the plan. At this point they knew they were causing a drama, but it had already been a drama.

I don’t agree that them leaving was always going to result in negative drama. It could have been done if (a) led by the Queen and (b) there hadn’t been a lead-up of ructions behind the scenes.

Meghan was welcomed initially by the royal family whatever the naysayers say.

Invited as a fiancée to Sandringham, an outing with the Queen, a big wedding even though she’d been married before, unlike PA &PC second weddings, PC walked her down the aisle.

So what went wrong & so quickly?

Yes, I agree they recalibrated their plans. Or M did. I'm not convinced H was completely onboard but no one knows for sure. All this talk about him wanting out the RF for years. Did he? I know I don't follow them but while he might not have been happy with every aspect of royal life did he really want out? Couldn't he have got out? Gone and worked in Africa somewhere?

Yes, I agree Dandy. If it had been handled differently while there might have been some negative press it would not have been to this extent. If as you say it had been announced by the queen. The H&M plan though of part-time royals, part entrepreneurs would never have been allowed though.

Not sure what your definition of transatlantic is Dandy (six months in the UK, six months in the US?) but at some point because of Archie they'd have had to decide where they were going to be full time or pretty much full time. They couldn't have split their time between two continents forever.

I'm glad the Queen made this decision, although it turns out not to be just her decision to make. In fact she has to follow certain laws regarding the RF and commercial endorsements. This includes the duty not to be connected to commercial activities which may be involved in fraud and misrepresentation. I'm not suggesting H&M would do anything like that, well not deliberately anyway but the RF has to scrupulously protect their reputation (yeah I know -randyandy but still...)

I think the fact that they are actively out there trying to monetize their royal brand has sunk in at the palace. H's speaking event at the JP Morgan event followed by news that he has been in talks to get paid for some 'position' with Goldman Sachs may have prompted the Queen to act. Neither banks have good reputations and H associating himself with them as a royal is a potential liability and goodness knows who else H&M may associate with next, hence the firm separation of their their titles now.

Well, without trying to demean H&M's accomplishments, what do they truly bring to the table without their titles? They'll still be treated as royals but I think that will fade faster now that they can't use it. Hopefully they'll work hard and make a success without the crutch of royal titles. I don't think the level of success they achieve will be the same though and I'm sure they know it too.

I don't think they got the 'love' from the press and public they thought they would tiara so cut their losses quicker than perhaps they initially planned and thought fuck-it you don't think much of us let's go and make some money, give a dog a bad name etc.

Regardless of what they might do around the world, there was always an issue of fairness in my mind over using "royal" under laws in the UK. It's like a perk of the Crown and would not open to any normal applicant. To me, a natural republican, that is tricky under our "tolerated" monarchy.

Rainbunny, surely they'll still have titles they will be able to use though. Won't H still be able to call himself Prince Harry on everything and M still call herself a Duchess? Or perhaps they'll be known as Prince and Princess Harry? I don't think this will be seen as a demotion in the UK and particularly not in the US.

I agree annie about the press but I was thinking more with what went wrong with the family so quickly. You know the family Meghan had never had?

to me its her fake smile every time she sees a camera and touching her hair, posing. as can be seen again from the last pictures when they landed victoria. also her lectures.

her smile like she is a winner, as well.

annielouise - My understanding is that no, they cannot formally use their titles. Of course that won't matter to the public (especially in the USA who are not as steeped in royal family protocol) and of course the public will still refer to them that way but they themselves cannot hold themselves out as Prince and Princess Harry or use the Royal Sussex brand name that they've coined.

They remain the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and can refer to themselves as such.

This is my understanding of the protocol as it's been explained to me but I'm happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable.

pulling her coat to show baby bump. all too much. other rf dont do such things.

Ok I’ve worked out what I think - speculation klaxon! - their original plan was, long before relations with the RF soured.

It’s dependent on them expecting full agreement for what they do, regardless of how realistic it is that HMQ would agree.

Marriage.
Phase 1: Live in the UK for a while. Separation from W&K in terms of charity.Do long holidays in North America.Set up the charitable foundation.

Phase 2: With the charitable foundation up and running and doing TV production work like the mental health doc, they set up a place in North America, possibly ‘temporarily’ and spend time there, months at a time. Depends on tax regulations and how they could avoid being double-taxed. But they don’t have a declared 6 months uk, 6 months US policy, it is all phased and not fully commented on to try and slip it under the net to a certain extent.

Phase 3: Archie starts primary/elementary school - in the US. For privacy, to be near M’s roots, and because their charitable foundation and TV work is doing well and an L.A. base makes sense. Harry and less so Meghan still come back to the UK a lot for engagements, for their patronages. They are doing the plum engagements, less so the dreary. They & Archie are at all or at least most major RF occasions. In this phase they do announce at some point that they are becoming self-funded to a certain extent.

Phase 4: Secondary/high school: Archie goes to boarding school in the UK. Possibly Eton. To give him an international stellar education and to honour his British roots. Harry & Meghan have two homes at this point, one in the UK and one in the US.

Yes, tiara. It did seem to be the RF was being more flexible regarding protocol, Xmas at Sandringham before marriage etc. Perhaps they did those things and then thought we'll we've done our bit when maybe M thought the support would be ongoing (no one has asked how I am etc) but the RF might not be like that, more stiff upper lip. There's so much unknown like why they split the offices (or whatever happened) and perhaps it was to do with things behind the scenes. Then there was that scene coming out of church when W seemed to want to avoid M. Some breakdown of a relationship between one or more of the four of them - W&K, H&M. The queen is old, doesn't want to be bothered. PC is not high on emotional intelligence. H&M and felt on their own. I don't know.