Harry and Meghan (15)

[Froq]

No harm in having it ready for the next event/announcement...

And they’ve now been criticised by a Canadian lawyer for promoting telecom service available in prisons but which limits calls only to landlines and charges loads and was cited as contributory factor in 2017 death of a prisoner in crisis when he couldn’t reach his support services whilst in prison awaiting a MH bed.

I heard about this. Really, of all the things you can criticize M&H about, this is not one of them, unless you criticize millions of other Canadians for supporting Bell Lets Talk, too.

letstalk.bell.ca/en/

ca.hellomagazine.com/celebrities/02020012954864/bell-lets-talk-2020-celebrity-quotes

I don't know Andylion. As a consumer I don't always check the background of the company I buy products from. Some I do know and steer clear of - e.g. I didn't like the stuff around tax and Starbucks so won't ever go there, I avoid buying from Amazon. So some consumers do have a conscious. None of us are perfect and I think it impossible to be so. I don't know the extent of the Bell telecom service in Canada - is it unavoidable for some consumers to not use it as there is nothing else, for instance?

However, if you're going to promote something in the capacity the H&M are doing and will continue to do so in the future, either in a charitable capacity or a money-making capacity, then they need to do due diligence so for that perhaps they can be criticised. It didn't bother me that much for me to mention it before but perhaps some criticism can be levelled at them.

@annielouise I agree with you.
Look at how bad the public opinion had to be when Diana died to get the RF to change their approach. No 10 had to get involved and explain it to them.
There needs to be change and I think that M&H are the first sign that time marches on.

The reaction of the public after Diana died was a shock to the RF I think Grim. I think it was a bit of a surprise that people dared to question them. Of course, with social media and the change in society people don't revere them as they once did, people question things more. They don't like. They don't seem to learn from it though. PA was given free reign to be a shit and his mum didn't nothing until she had to as I don't think she likes being questioned.

However, if you're going to promote something in the capacity the H&M are doing and will continue to do so in the future, either in a charitable capacity or a money-making capacity, then they need to do due diligence so for that perhaps they can be criticised. It didn't bother me that much for me to mention it before but perhaps some criticism can be levelled at them.

Fair enough, but half my Canadian friends on Facebook posted about Bell Let's Talk, and I had never heard about this issue until H&M were criticized about it. Nor have I ever seen anyone else being called to account over it.

So it's your Canadian friends are criticising them? I haven't seen anyone criticise them for this on MN but haven't read everything. It's just one more thing though for people to raise their eyebrows at or roll their eyes at even if they can't be bothered to actually write any criticism down.

So for H&M if they don't want criticism they need to do due diligence and make sure they're squeeky clean. They're not that smart though. They thought they could talk about climate change while taking private jets. It's contemptuous, arrogant behaviour in general.

is step back very different from down?

. There was the
fully support Her Majesty The Queen ,theto honour our duty to The Queen, the Commonwealth, and our patronages*. reads to me as carry on fulfilling our jobs.

I think I'll agree to disagree about what that para implies - it must be like Rubin's vase with each of us seeing something different

Yes, step back is very different to step down, as seems to have been accepted by most apart from you, peridito.

Their statement is clear and verified by H's reaction in his Sentebale speech that he had hoped to continue with the military appointments.

They wanted their jobs but to also move to North America (so how could they have continued with their RF jobs in full?) and to pursue their own financial interests. Unfortunately, sometimes things are that clear.

"We intend to step back as ‘senior’ members of the Royal Family, and work to become financially independent, while continuing to fully support Her Majesty The Queen."

They want to step back from senior members of the RF, so become junior members, with less responsibility/profile/engagements, and become financially independent - by doing voiceovers presumably etc.

A role in the RF should never be mixed with pursuing your own financial interests. It was wrong of the queen to turn a blind eye to PA and Fergie et al doing this as it is trading on their titles.

It’s like the bloody Hokey Cokey.

So it's your Canadian friends are criticising them? I haven't seen anyone criticise them for this on MN but haven't read everything. It's just one more thing though for people to raise their eyebrows at or roll their eyes at even if they can't be bothered to actually write any criticism down.

Sorry if I was unclear. My friends were all posting in support of Bell Let's Talk. I hadn't heard of any criticism apart from this thread. If M&H are guilty of being uninformed on this matter, then so is half the country.

Looking at it peridito it can only mean one of three things:

1. they want to step back, as they have explicitly said, to take a lesser role but still be in the RF (step back from being senior members) and pursue being financially independent, as they have explicitly said and as indicated by their actions on the Lion King red carpet, which means making deals and presumably trading off being in the RF - why else keep (trademark?) the Sussexroyal name? This is what everyone but you seems to have accepted what they meant. If they didn't mean that, why didn't they come out and clarify it immediately?

2. they intend to step 'down' from the RF completely, which they didn't say, and become totally self-financing through business deals. Why then would they want to keep the titles if they're not in the RF? Again, it implies trading off the RF prestige, if you can call it that, to make money. The idea still wouldn't go down well with the British public.

3. they intend to stay in the RF as before, only working for the RF and not pursuing financial independence, but the statement doesn't say that so we can rule it out.

There are no other possible interpretations.

Regardless, neither one nor two options seems palatable to the British public, which is why they've had the, justified in my opinion, backlash.

Andylion - I've just quickly searched the thread - I could only see one person mention it (Cuttingthegrass?) - were you aiming your comment about it at them? No one else seems to have jumped on it and criticised. It was just mentioned once as far as I can see and all Cuttingthegrass said was that they should be diligent about their research and who they support. That's for their sake as well. Companies are very hot on this stuff now and public figures need to be as well, whether the criticism is justified or not.

Yes now I've thought about it they are different in tone ,you're right .

But oddly stepping back (as opposed to down )implies to me no loss of position but then in the statement it's qualified by "as senior Royals "

I think that as Royals only work part time then time wise they could have met all their comitments re engagements . To me that statement reads as an intention to do so , others don't see it that way ,different views .

But the real problem I agree was the financial one and combining that with Royal duties .

Let me segway a childish interruption.

H-that's-what-I-call-him

😂 😂 😂

There’s something about Meghan’s mannerisms and choice of words that’s just so mockable...

It would be perfectly simple to turn all the bad press round and rehabilitate themselves if they so wished.

1. Close their instagram account. Delete their website

1. Stop courting celebs

1. Ask all their friends to stop 'talking' to the press

1. Stop posting photos of themselves doing things in the past entirely

1. Stop calling themselves Royal Highnesses and using Duke and Duchess of Sussex altogether

1. Make a lot of effort to build bridges in terms of personal relationships with W and K and PC. Apologise to the Queen for their presumption in talking about 'collaboration'.

1. Stop with all the court cases and suing the press in future, unless it is something like using long lenses to take photos of M getting out of the bath.

1. Go and see Thomas and work out some way to behave gracefully in future. Take Archie to see him twice a year in exchange for no more interviews and shutting Samantha up for good.

1. Buy a modest house wherever it is they want to live and pay for their own security through investments.

Get jobs without trading on connections, Royal or otherwise. Work hard. Shut up.

But they won't do any of this because they want it all. Fame, fortune, celeb friends, lots of money . All on their terms of course.
They could do lots of good charity work too, on the quiet without cameras and without splashing it all over SM.

There’s something about Meghan’s mannerisms and choice of words that’s just so mockable

I'm sure we're all mockable in our own way. MM from the US might well have a different choics of words. And mannerisms... we all have them...

I'm sorry, but can you imagine Kate saying 'W as I call him...' !

It is laughable, no doubt about it.

“Big Willy”, I read once. Suspect that one may be fake news!

"I think that as Royals only work part time then time wise they could have met all their comitments re engagements . To me that statement reads as an intention to do so , others don't see it that way ,different views ."

I agree peridito the RF's idea of full time work is not mine. However, by stepping back, even if as you say they could still have met all their RF commitments/engagements as they don't take up that much of the year, and pursuing their financial independence immediately causes a conflict of interest. For example, a paying job on the West Coast comes up that they don't want to turn down as it means a lot of private money for them but an appointment with the marines on behalf of the RF clashes with it. Oh wait, didn't that already happen when H didn't go to some marine dinner but to the Lion King red carpet event so he could tout for work for his wife?

It would be perfectly simple to turn all the bad press round and rehabilitate themselves
They'll keep getting negative press until the media move onto the next victim, no matter what they do.

The Royal Family did nothing to protect them or help them, but issued denials about Kate getting botox and extensions.

Why should H&M go out of their way for 'personal relationships'. Staff at Clarence House and Kensington (perhaps of their own accord) have leaked some faux negative things. They realised things would never get better and that they would not be getting any support. They saw that Archie would receive the same press as Meghan.

We've all got nicknames for our OH's surely?
I certainly have!

Kate has a position to uphold as William is second in line to the throne.

If she'd said it without the giggle and girly hand over the mouth I'd be more inclined to believe it was genuine and wasn't an attempt to be cute.

The Rubin's Vase metaphor is a great description of this thread. I think one perspective dominates but that's not necessarily the case outside this thread. Even if you can't see it, it's good to recognise that other perspectives exist. People view discussing mental health, use of social media, acceptable ways to make money differently, and there's sections of the public that definitely haven't turned against M&H. I think it could well turn out great in the long run!