Harry and Meghan (15)

[Froq]

No harm in having it ready for the next event/announcement...

What has gone so wrong in their situation that they've not been able to copy the Swedish RFs family model?

What has gone so wrong in their situation that they've not been able to copy the Swedish RFs family model?

Is it different because the Sussexes want to be able to use their titles in a work capacity, but Princess Madeleine's husband doesn't?

I think it is a lot to do with trading on the Royal name and status for personal pursuit.

Do you genuinely believe that a helicopter containing a member of the royal family was used as a decoy for missiles?
So funny... who thought this. Even a non- royal family piloted helicopter would not be used as a decoy for missiles, Combat helicopters cost an absolute fortune and the British Army only has so many of them, and only has so many trained helicopter pilots. I’m not arguing he didn’t serve his country, both within UK and in Afghanistan, he clearly did, but as a decoy to missiles, that’s so funny.

The media can’t get enough of the Duchess of Cambridge at the moment can they? She’s everywhere with her 5 big questions.

What has gone so wrong in their situation that they've not been able to copy the Swedish RFs family model?

I went to have a look at the Swedish Royals wikipedia to see a bit more and got distracted by all the beautiful names - might have to go back for a look if we have another baby...

There seem a few differences between Meghan&Harry and Madeleine&Christopher. With Madeleine, she had already moved and worked abroad, her partner had a non-celebrity, stable, lucrative career and the situation was all worked out beforehand. With M&H they had a lot of attention from the start (not sure what it was like for M&C), there needed to be a bigger change in lifestyle for at least one of them, they decided to try the traditional royal role first (rightly or wrongly -and I know some of us disagree about this) so by the time the situation came about negotiations took place in a kind of 'crisis mode', (and titles, and names etc got very heated). Maybe both parties will come round to a Swedish model in time, I really don't know the ins and outs of it.

But for the future, her children have had their royal status removed with her blessing and I liked that she "commented that her children now will have greater possibilities to format their own lives as private persons". Seemed something to aim for, for the next generation

Princess Madeleine had some appalling press. Her first fiancée may (or may not) have cheated, the engagement was called off and she was blasted all over the papers. The German press went to any extent and at times wrote that she was pregnant by god knows whom and I don’t know what other rubbish. She wanted to keep a royal role, but more low key I think. She still gets bad press occasionally (abandoned Sweden), but gets on with it. Her husband just keeps a low profile.

Interestingly, her brother Carl Phillip (the crown princess is the oldest, Sweden goes by birth order) married a former glamour model (now Princess Sofia) and reality show contestant. They wanted to have royal roles. You might be able to imagine the press Princess Sofia had. Now Sofia and Carl Phillip do low key royal engagements. The press has calmed down and they are appreciated and loved I think. Their children will not be royal though - probably for the best.

In Sweden at least there was both flexibility in terms of roles, an understanding that press coverage may be brutal and a long term view. If English people are similar to Swedish people, MM would eventually be generally accepted and loved if she wanted. A key difference seems to be that the partners of the Swedish royals have not tried to change the entire institution. They adapted and let the change be driven by the Swedish king.

In the Charlotte tantrum video, it appears that Kate points first at the plane, then at the photographers. I wonder if they are training the children to behave in a certain way in front of photographers from a very early age.
I don't blame Charlotte for sticking her tongue out, but I imagine it won't be as cute if she does it when she is 13.

I don't think you can ever say never. Look at how things have turned around for Camilla - although it took a great deal of time and PR strategy. Many of us are far more accepting of her and her future role than perhaps we ever thought we might be.

Despite what I think now, maybe the same will happen with MM in 20 years time.

Meghan fans have often said that she can't win, no matter what she does. I tend to disagree. However, when the next royal wedding or funeral occurs, I wonder what she will do? If she attends, she will likely be swamped with media attention, if she doesn't, she will be hugely criticized.

I hope that, if she shows, in particular, if she attends a funeral, that the media leave her alone out of respect for the deceased.

I don't think people actually like Camilla. They just tolerate her. We're stuck with her, so have no choice!

That's really interesting, @GracefulHippo, thank you. Her wikipedia page was just very factual so from the details it gave about the first engagement I was wondering about the press coverage, and it sounds terrible.

Its horrible how brutal press seems to be a given. Fair play to anyone who does choose to stick it out and work within the institution, it seems Camilla and Princess Sofia have faced a lot. Maybe we disagree about how much MM wanted to change the entire institution. To me it seemed to be that H&M wanted to redefine their role (I can understand why they might not want to wait it out for 20 years or so) and they and RF negotiated to the deal they have now, with each side protecting their own loyalties. Maybe it depends on your view of duty/ loyalty?

just had to pop on and say that Camilla is really good. she visited my childs sn school and was really nice. best bit was she didn't do the "ahh bless em" stuff.

Interesting, @Samcro apart from waving at the Queen at a railway station aged 8ish, I've never met any royals. Without having any real opinions on any of them I think I'd like to go for a drink with Anne or Camilla, from the (tiny) bit I've seen of them they seem like they'd be down to earth and a laugh. If I had to...

@rockingchaircandle by all accounts ( I was not one of the chosen few to go lol) she was very approachable. must admit I had a hard time convincing a teen dd with lds that she was a princess lol

I terms of press coverage, I just think that there will always be the gutter press. They will print anything and the best thing is not to read it. In terms of these online groups, as I not am on social media, I am not really exposed to them. I think the internet is a way to connect nutters from everywhere. I read somewhere about this face group where people campaigned for the recognition that earth is flat. I mean....

In terms of MM&PH, the statement they gave certainly pointed to that they wanted to change things. I think I have read somewhere that MM was excited about how she and PH could really have an impact and modernise, but this may be taken out of thin air. I do think that in an institution such as the royal family, the changes need to at least be perceived to come from the top, ie from the Queen. There also need to be (if within the institution) loyalty to the country and they undertaken causes. Being caught on camera like PH, joking about getting his wife a voice over job at a glitzy when he declined to attend a military function to honour deceased marines (?) is really not on.

Maybe I am getting old, but I think that the world is getting to be a frightening place. Most politicians are awful, on both political sides and there seems to be very little middle ground. To me, the royal family represents a continuity, something above politics which holds duty high. Memorial services before film premieres. Charitable causes before self promotion. I think it is hard to have it both ways. You are in (with the obligations) or out (and free to choose to a larger extent).

Phew, that was an essay! Sorry

Some really interesting and insightful posts today. Where to start?

SirChing I hope you have recovered from your - encounter - with BoJo. I'm sure the temperature must be playing a part. If it happens again you might consider selling your story to the DM

Fascinating stuff from Rocking and Gracefulhippo on the Swedish RF. I wonder how much notice our RF takes of what goes on in other royal houses around Europe. It's a very exclusive club, I bet they watch each other like hawks.

I was thinking exactly what AndyLion has posted, what happens if there is a funeral in the family? Sadly I agree that at this stage, whatever Meghan chooses to do will be reported negatively. I'd hope she would turn up anyway out of respect and to support her husband, however hard.

On the modernisation of the Firm, we don't know how much H&M tried to do things from the inside before going rogue. Because it's possible they tried, and were obstructed by the men in grey suits, and thought they would never get away if they didn't force the issue. I'm not condoning it, but there could be more to it than we have been told. Pure speculation on my part before anyone asks!

And finally, I'd come with you Rocking on a pub crawl with Anne and Camilla, could be a hoot!

I liked your essay, I think I do agree with many of your points. Definitely, the world seems to be a frightening place, especially with politics and the climate and everything else that could and does fill many threads! Strong institutions can definitely offer stability. And the gutter press has always been there.

With the press, I think it's more complicated than a personal choice not to read it, as it is so influential. We could regulate the press better but I think that online platforms not the individual papers now hold a lot of power and Zuckerberg &co don't like recognising it or giving it up. Its a very murky place where you can target and spread fake news, especially if you have the money.

I don't know lots about the ins and outs of MM&PH but the choice of the premiere seems v poor. Overall though, they seem to me to have wanted charity and self-promotion (I might say more self-protection). For me, as someone who has never been a Royalist, I've got concerns over their handling of their duties, especially with some other members (I know there is another thread for this though!) and don't have much faith in them as an institution but I appreciate why they are important to many people.

graceful
Yes all very true. I think the monarchy is the last bastion of old values based on pre war society.
When HM and PC are gone it will be a whole new ball game. When the Queen dies the last link with the wartime era will be gone for good.
We live in a world where everything is about self promotion and making lots of money. It’s a sad situation, and not a great outlook in my view for anyone.
Mind you, people like PC are making a mockery of the whole institution.

I meant PA!

I’m not a Royalist either and I’m completely with you @rockingchaircandle on your last paragraph.

When the Queen dies the last link with the wartime era will be gone for good

Agree with this, I think it will be the end of an era. And I think H&M going off to Canada etc will be a defining moment as to a reshape of the RF when we look back in 10 years or whatever. Having said that given QM lived to 100 and something, maybe the Queen will still be around in 10 years!

Yes if the Queen lives to be 103 she really will have to hand over to Charles before then. I bet she never expected to be still as well as she is at 93 when she promised to be reign for life. How many people at her age are still working?

I really wish she would abdicate and pass the crown on to Charles. This has happened in Spain with King Juan Carlos and his son, now King Felipe and Queen Letizia. Juan Carlos abdicated I think it was 2013 or thereabouts, when he was late 70s. Felipe and family bring so much energy to the whole thing and as I understand it, are fairly popular.

Queen Letizia is like a Spanish Kate. Although I prefer Letizia's style of clothing, she's a bit more daring and 'out there'.