Beyond Adolescence - part 4

[SpanielsGalore]

Didn't realise we were that close to the end of part 3. 😂

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I hadn't seen either of these vets before. The first one was very thorough in her examination, so I couldn't fault her at the time. Second vet asked, "Has she been dressed (Scottish term for neutered)? When was her last season?" Then diagnosed a phantom pregnancy. Hadn't even touched K by that point.

To put it politely, I'm a little bit cross about K's neck. It's not the usual shaving rash, irritating her skin. She has a two inch cut across her neck, where someone has dug in with the clippers. It's bled and has also been weeping. I think that's why the vet gave me the cream for free. He could clearly see someone had messed up.

Glad TD and DWS are enjoying the Hairy Coo toys. I did tell you it was nearly as big as K. 😂 It's so funny watching her running round the garden, carrying it. P has pulled a bit of the orange fluff off ours, but the rest is still going strong.

I had a light bulb explode once. Then I read you aren't supposed to touch them with your hands, as the finger prints create hot spots or something. You have to hold them in a cloth.

@SpanielsGalore I have to say I dread the day my vet retires as I trust his judgment so much. You'd have thought the vet who did the more thorough examination would have been better able to diagnose, but sometimes the really good ones can just tell with a quick look and 1/2 questions.

Oh no!!! I hadn't realised it was weeping. Do you think it's bothering her? Poor K🙁

Twatdog is actually struggling to get it in his mouth as there's nothing to 'grip' onto and his teeth keep sliding off the horns. He's very happy though. Lots of bum wiggles and tail wags, so a definite success! Not sure how long it'll last but he likes it more than anything else i've bought in a while. His other favourite toy is 'blanket' but DWS steals them and hides them under DD1s bed. She doesn't really guard them, but he's too scared to try and fetch it back and I get bored of running around rescuing his toys. He needs to learn to stand up for himself. Loser.😂

Oh! Is that not an old-wives tale? Tbh would explain a lot. I'm going to get someone in to do a full EICR on the house. It's been years since anyone looked at the electrics and I know there's a few issues (flashing lights, the odd blown fuse etc). I just dread having people in. I get irrationally stressed about contacting tradesmen which is odd as I have no issue with public speaking or indeed anything else, just tradesmen.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks It may well be. I am an old wife after all. 😂

My pair grab Hairy Coo by his side and carry him about. K has to be careful she doesn't trip over him. Poor TD being scared of his little sis.

How tough are the Harry coos? Dog tends to destroy anything soft, but it could go on his Christmas present wish list. He’s actually been short changed this week as it was his Gotcha anniversary, and he didn’t get a present.

Had car training. Two part session. First part trainer observed us in the house. Dog remembered trainer had very tasty treats before so was all over him (although to be fair, we don’t have good ‘meet and greet’ manners). He noted I was quick to get a ball or treats to distract him, and so basically said that Dog has got used to demanding things and we give in, or he gets the treat first before doing the action, so our homework is to give commands, and then to treat.

Second part was outside by the car. I’d sent the trainers some videos and he said Dog wasn’t fearful in the car. He feels Dog is being stubborn and wanting his own way. So again, I have to reward once dog jumps in the car, not lure him, with me sitting in the car and then getting a long line so he jumps in with me not in the car. I have tried this in the past but and got so far, but didn’t progress any further. Ah well, baby steps.

@Silverbirchleaf The Hairy Coo is quite solidly built, compared to a soft squishy cuddly toy. Mine haven't attempted to destroy it, but P has pulled some of the orange fluff off. The reviews on Amazon are surprisingly poor, with people saying their dog destroyed it in two weeks.

My dogs have appalling meet and greet manners. They are all over visitors like a rash and pogo up and down in their faces. Depending on who the visitor is I will either leave them to it, say "Just ignore them.They'll calm down in a minute" or throw a handful of kibble on the lawn as a distraction.

What is your dog like in the car? Did you send videos of Dog on a journey or getting in and out of the stationary vehicle? Just wondering how the behaviour can be interpreted in two such widely differing ways.
If you saw P jumping into the car, you'd think she was fine. And if it took a couple of tellings for her to jump in, you might think she was being stubborn. But there's no way her circling, panting and catatonic stare once moving at speed can be interpreted as anything other than fear.

Trainer sounds like a bit of a nobhead to be honest. If Dog is wanting his own way there's a reason for that. If it's not fear, what is it? Dogs aren't daft, the car is associated with lots of different things, lots of them great, so what's the 'own way' he could possibly be wanting by refusing to get in if there's no fear involved? You need to know what the emotional driver is before you can change behaviour.

Reminds me of an appalling trainer working near me who told the owner of a lovely if barky spaniel who was afraid of the hoover to basically haul the poor little sod round with the hoover and yank the lead every time she barked. Astonishingly it didn't work.

I tend to agree with @Bupster . I did type "What exactly does the trainer think Dog wants?" But it seems to have disappeared. (I also put 'They'll calm down'.)

I don't really like the language of stubborn, demanding, wanting his own way in relation to dogs. He'll be saying Dog is trying to dominate you next.
As Bupster says, if Dog doesn't want to get in the car, there is a reason for it. He's not just being pig headed.

P became frightened of the car, because she had too many journeys ending at the vets. It took months of only doing the short 3 minute drive to the sea front for her to stop trembling. But it was the route she was alright with. Not the duration of the journey. If I drove the 30 seconds to the end of my street and turned left, she'd start trembling and panting because she knew it wasn't the way to the beach.

It's taken two years for her to be ok-ish with journeys up to about 15 minutes. Fortunately, we have lots of lovely walks within that range. But if I wanted to take her to visit family back in England or on holiday, I would have to sedate her.

@Bupster That 'trainer' sounds awful. But I have to wonder about the people who follow such shit advice.

@Silverbirchleaf Is the person you are working with a trainer or behaviourist? Are they registered with any organisations like APDT, ABTC or PACT?

I don’t agree with the language used either. Calling a dog stubborn or wanting their own way is humanising their emotions in a way that they simply isn’t possible (look up Anthropomorphism). It’s a scientific fact that dogs only experience basic emotions, and anything else is them simply reacting to factors such as their environment or their physical condition (pain etc). So there’s definitely a reason for it but it’s often difficult to work out exactly what that is. Vinny doesn’t like the car and our old trainer said it can even be that a dog will hate travelling in one car and be fine in another, just because one has different suspension or makes a slightly different noise. Not saying you should go out and buy a brand new car though 😂

Sorry have been lurking again for a while. We started working with our new trainer and V is doing great. We have a way to go yet but his recall is now pretty solid and his behaviour generally has improved a lot. His loose lead walking has also improved loads and I’m trying to build this up slowly in different environments but it’s a long process. I’ve been doing a lot of driving to supermarkets or other random places and walking him up and down 😄

I had stopped walking him off lead and our world had become very small just because I was always so stressed taking him out and about, so I feel like we are slowly making improvements and the world is opening up for us again. We are going to the lakes for a week at the end of October and I’m feeling way more positive about it than I was a few months ago!

Here he is being angelic as always 👼🏻

The trainers are well thought of locally and I’ve heard good reports about them.

From the videos, think they concluded that he wasn’t fearful of cars, per se so instead of luring him in, to get him to jump in to earn his treat, but Dog would rather have the lure, so would bark until he gets his own way, ie. lure would then appear and then he would jump in. Hope that makes it clearer. (Not actually sure they used the word stubborn, think that may have been me to describe it)

@YorkshireFelix what a lovely shiney coat he has.

@YorkshireFelix Lovely to 'see' you and Vinny. He's looking as handsome as ever. 💖
Glad things are working out with your new trainer and you're able to enjoy V more.

@Silverbirchleaf I lured P into the car when she first became fearful. (Which was progress from having to pick her up and put her in.) But now treats stay in my pocket and she gets rewarded for jumping in. So I get that bit of the training.
I hope the training helps your dog. Having a dog that can't travel is incredibly frustrating and restrictive.

@Silverbirchleaf Ah I see, sorry I misunderstood and thought the trainer had called him stubborn! Do you use a negative marker with him at all? This is something we’ve been really consistent with recently and it’s improved a lot of behaviour such as barking etc. We use ‘ah ah’ and then say no and he’s learnt from our response and body language that he’s doing a bad thing.

V won’t jump in the car either but I think it’s a combination of not liking travelling in the car and the issue he has with his back legs. I had to lift him in but he’s only 14kg so I can live with it (not so nice when he’s filthy and wet though!).

I do think the longline thing will work but as you say it’s baby steps. We have been using a longline - actually a flexi which I know are loathed on MN but I only use it for specific training activities such as recall practice and never for general walking and it’s been a game changer for me as longlines stress me out so bad - but it’s sorted out a lot of problems for us being able to guide V to practice the behaviour we want from him and not practice the unwanted behaviour. That practice plus a lot of consistency has been the key for us recently! It’s a long process but I think worth it in the long run.

I am sorry you’re having problems with the vets and K! I feel like you never get a break when it comes to medical stuff with your lot 😢

OMG Rory caught a baby rabbit today. We were tidying up after yet another of DH’s volunteering events and Rory was sniffing around under a (parked!) tractor. He came running out with something in his mouth that sounded just like a squeaky toy so I thought awww he’s found someone’s lost toy… nope living baby rabbit.

I really hope it was already poorly before he caught it as I didn’t see him shake it or anything but it wasn’t in a good way so a more country person dispatched it 🥺.

I felt so bad!

@YorkshireFelix hope you don't mind me saying, but hope your DD is doing okay with back to school. My nephew had a bit of a rough time last week. Sometimes I think school holidays do more harm than good in his respect...

Glad to hear you and Vinny are doing well and that his recall has improved. ❤He's a handsome little man, isn't he?

@Silverbirchleaf Hairy Coo is tough enough that Twatdog hasn't destroyed it yet, so definitely strong. Bog standard toys from petsathome last about 5 minutes with him...

Sorry to hear the training session was a bit rough. Are you going to persist with it a bit longer? Sometimes I think experts (vets, trainers etc) get so used to dealing with one rationale for a behaviour that they forget there are other reasons a dog reacts in a particular way (i.e. @Struckbylightning vet saying Merry was aggressive when she was clearly just scared).

@Idstillratherbepaddleboarding oh no!!! Try not to feel too bad, it is the was of the world and Rory was really only doing what he was made to do. How is he doing now the weather is a bit cooler?

@SpanielsGalore Hairy Coo may well be the best purchase I have made. I owe you one! Twatdog loves it. He trots around, tail in the air, looking like he's the cat that got the cream.

How is K doing?

@YorkshireFelix I nearly made it through a year of insurance without making a claim! If only the first vet had diagnosed the phantom pregnancy. I can't say I don't get my money's worth from Pet Plan.

@Idstillratherbepaddleboarding I'd say the first one is the worst, but I don't think it gets better. P's caught 5 furries. She kills and eats them. It's mortifying.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Awwww. So pleased TD loves the Hairy Coo. I can just imagine him prancing around with it. 💖 Did you get the orange one? It's a much more sensibly sized toy for a GR than a 8.5kg cocker.

Pleased to say K is getting back to normal. Not fully fit, but her bossy personality is showing through at times. And she's enjoying woodland walks again. Poor thing had been suffering for weeks, whilst I wondered if I was imagining things or not. I shall know to be on the look out for a phantom next time. I'd stopped counting weeks after the threat of pyometra passed.

@SpanielsGalore it’s sort of orange/brown? It has an orange top knot? I also got a duck (I think)? It’s just about the right size though 😊 Its about the size of Satan, so the idea of your girls playing with it make me smile!!

So glad to hear K is a bit better 😊 she’s clearly a very good communicator though and you thought she wasn’t 100% so you kept pushing at the vets. She’s lucky to have you tbh!! Bet it won’t be long before she’s back to ignoring your recal commands and causing chaos with P 😂

Just got my insurance renewal through. It’s only gone up £3 per month so not too bad.

However, prompted by @SpanielsGalore saying she almost got through a year without claiming, just checked mine and it’s now over two years. Do I hunt around for a cheaper deal, as some say two years for pre-existing conditions, or do I stick with who I already use? £75 for £12000 cover.

Typed a fairly long reply to posts earlier and then lost it all.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Our Hairy Coo is bright orange with blue hair. Looking at the Amazon link I posted, you don't seem to be able to choose the colour. Someone is complaining about getting an orange one when they were expecting brown.

Once K is fully fit, she'll be back to walking without P. I'm no fool. 😂
I wish I'd trusted my instincts earlier with K. But when you are constantly at the vets, you imagine people think you're a bit of a nutter. Although to be fair, there has always been something wrong with them.

@Silverbirchleaf If you have made a claim, I would stick with who you are with. Or phone any new company to make sure everything will be covered before you switch.

P had two vet visits during the 4 weeks of free KC insurance. She had an injection to make her vomit after eating a Nerf gun bullet and her anal glands emptied. Pet Plan excluded her whole digestive tract from entry to exit.

Talking of insurance, guess who's putting another claim in. 🙋‍♀️
I took the dogs down to the sea front at lunch time. P ran off the track onto the beach and yelped. I thought she'd hurt her good leg, as she was limping, but then I saw blood. She's got a deep, gaping cut on her side, just in front of her hind leg. Presumably she must have got caught on the barbed wire fence. We've been to the vets and she's had an antibiotic injection. And she's booked in tomorrow to have it stitched up. She's absolutely rocking the babygro.

Picture of cut/hole in her side for anyone interested in the gory details. I'll blur it for the squeamish.

Poor ‘ol’ P. Guess that’s better than the cone of shame though. She’s definitely feeling sorry for herself.

MNHQ have hidden my post of the cut. Must be more gory than I thought. 😳

Oh. It reappeared whilst I was typing.

@Silverbirchleaf The problem with cones is they don't stop the other dogs from doing the licking.

@SpanielsGalore oh isn't P just adorable in her baby-grow. That looks so painful for her though. Did they give her any painkillers? Did she come running back to you when she hurt herself?

I know what you mean about being paranoid about always being at the vets! Every lump or bump and I am straight down there but unlike you I take mine down when they're not even sick such as when Twatdog had his scabby nose. DWS was sick last night and I was awake half the night watching her sleep but because she sleeps with DD1 I kept having to leave my bed to check on her

I quite like it brown. Looks more natural. 😂He was sleeping next to it earlier and had a paw on it, and DWS came along and tried to grab it and yank it away but he woke up so she scarpered.

@Silverbirchleaf i'd stick! Sometimes they exclude even more than you might expect! I claimed for an allergic reaction for Twatdog then changed insurance...and for the first two years everything related to his 'skin' was excluded. £75 for £12K is pretty good, I think.

I reported a poster earlier for posting a link to what they claimed were 'puppy Christmas presents'...yes, they were puppies as presents. A puppy farmer posting a link to their puppy farming website advertising 'Christmas deals'. A steal at £250 deposit to 'reserve' a puppy now. Hopefully I got it taken down before anyone actually saw it and thought it would be a good idea to buy from them...but the length these people go to😤

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks No. P's as hard as nails. She kept running round the field. I called her over as she was limping and kept turning to bite her left hip. Checked her leg and paw over and couldn't find anything. Then a few minutes later saw a round, red patch on her side. I thought she'd just grazed it at first. But she went in the water later on and that must have stung, because she was pretty frantic when she got out. I could see then that it was a fairly deep gash. The vet mentioned pain killers, but she's on daily Arthrocam for arthritis so didn't prescribe any extra.

I hope DWS is alright. Was it something she ate?

I think my Hairy Coo looks more Scottish. It's the colour of Irn-Bru. 😂 Really glad TD loves it and I didn't recommend a duffer.

Oh I missed the puppy advert. Well spotted and reported.
Are people really stupid enough to pay a deposit for a puppy that hasn't even been born yet?

@SpanielsGalore P sounds like the dog that Twatdog wishes he could be. But if he gets a hurty paw, that's it. He has to limp around acting like its been amputated.🙄

Probably. She likes to snaffle in the undergrowth and eat nasty things. Honestly, I think the girls are far worse than Twatdog when it comes to being a bit grotty.

Maybe they saw your address and specifically sent you a Scottish one? 😂

They really do! People are very odd about dogs. It's almost as though the more outrageous the request and/or website, the more legitimate they think it is! The GoldenDoodle place near me is £500 deposit...

I see our mate Donna has another litter. Makes 4 now. I may have turned into a Donna stalker.

Hope everyone else had a lovely day. I've spent most of it staring blankly at Teams meetings from about 08:30 - 16:30 with the occasional browse of MN just to pass the time. Poor babies have been incredibly neglected today - nothing worse than a mother at home who ignores them all day and the rain 😞