Is it awful to be considering a doodle..? First time dog owner

[AmpleLilacQuail]

Hi all, I’ve been thinking about getting my first dog for a few years and I’m now in a position to do so - very exciting.

Initially I was sucked into the cockapoo/cavapoo ‘hype’ but I went off them as I was worried about potential behavioural and health issues. I then had my heart set on a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel although I know they have their own health issues!

Anyway, now the time has come to get the dog, I’m back to considering a cockapoo.. is it terrible of me? I am open to other small/medium sized dogs too, if anyone has any suggestions?

The main driver behind this is that I live rurally and it’s much easier to travel an hour or two to a cockapoo pup, as it could be a 7 hour drive (each way!) for a CKCS.. which is just too far.

I check my local SSPCA weekly and I never see any dogs that would be suitable for me as a first time dog owner.

Yes it was a mixture of the dogs start in life and my friend not being able to cope. The dog was health tested and she saw the parents etc, but he’d been raised around thirty other* *pets. More like a pet hoarding situation (although the place was huge apparently) than a puppy farm situation. As a result he was wracked with anxiety, couldn’t be left alone. She rehomed him to someone with another miniature poodle in the house and he’s doing much better with a friend.

Sorry. But who the hell is recommending that breeder?

Gently, @AmpleLilacQuail that's on your friends for buying a puppy from a puppy farmer. The second they showed up, they should have turned away tbh.

Just because someone recommends a breeder, doesn't mean they are any good. We've seen multiple (well known) puppy farms recommended time and time again on Mumsnet, sadly.

You really do need to do your research. But honestly, a poodle is a brilliant choice for a dog - just be careful about the breeder. But you are far more likely to find a better bred poodle than you are cockerpoo...

People aren’t down on doodles themselves, it’s the fact that it is practically impossible to find an ethical breeder. That and many first timers see a doodle in the park, think cute dog, I want one, and don’t realise that even if they are getting the same mix chances are it will be an entirely different dog. That and they always trot out they want hypoallergenic, non shedding etc. which means they’ll be better off with a poodle as a cross may not have those features. Then they aren’t prepared to wait so convince themselves the puppy farm is a lovely place or they are “rescuing” a pup from a dodgy breeder.

for example you say you saw both parents like it’s a good thing. For me it’s an absolute no/red flag. The chances of owning a stud that is a perfect genetic and temperament match for your bitch are slim. If there was an issue with a previous litter they aren’t going to not mate that pair again and go to the expense of finding a new stud. How many litter had the bitch had? How old was she? Keeping a neutered dog and bitch together it will be almost impossible for the bitch to not be constantly having puppies. Recommendation for a litter spread years apart and two or three max- not going to happen.

Can I chuck in a vote for a Lab too?
I got my first ever dog, a Lab puppy, three months ago at 8 weeks and I just don’t recognise the puppy horror stories I see a lot of. It may well be that I landed on my feet with this pup and he’s just unusually calm but there has been no destruction, he has been easy to train, he is happy to lie around the house most of the day between walks - he is obsessed with food though (and I mean obsessed) but he has been a very easy pup to raise so far (I may change my mind when he becomes a teenager!)

Even now, he is right in the middle of teething and I can’t say I have noticed a difference in his behaviour because of it.

You cannot compare adopting a dog to adopting a child. And your argument loses all credibility for doing so.

I have bought four puppies. I have rescued one dog. I am currently fostering a dog. I'm not a saint. I'm just doing what I can to help.

Shocking isn’t it. I know people will say “should have walked away” but that is so much easier said than done when you’re in the situation.

Then you are a better person than me.

Why is my argument not valid? There are plenty of children who need homes. I don’t see how this is not a valid point.

Are humans less worthy of adopting than dogs? I would say they should take priority but no one bangs on about adopting children as much as they do about dogs.

Your jibe ignores the more important issue, what can be done so that animals don’t end up in rescues? This is the issue that needs addressing and op is doing the right thing by thinking carefully about the breed she chooses. This is the point of origin that matters to get everything right. I applaud people who ask for advice before getting a dog.

You only have to go on one of these puppy farm websites or Facebook pages to see hundreds of recommendations. The got the doodledoo they wanted, no waiting, and thing the sales patter means the breeders genuinely care. While there are hundred of dogs in barns outside.

many people don’t care past “my puppy is great, I got it from this place” much as you would a blender from John Lewis.

I have a cavapoo. He's a very easy dog. Lovely temperament. Moderately high prey drive and loves sniffing out tennis balls. Very family bonded.

He does get anxious when out of routine but he can easily be left at home, he just sleeps (and occasionally rouses himself to yap at the postman).

He was the second and final litter of a 6 year old cavalier who was a family pet. I have her 4 generation pedigree. She was bred to a stud poodle selected for temperament; I also have his pedigree. Her previous litter were not cross breeds. Both parents were tested DNA clear of main breed conditions and I have hip scores and mum's heart info as well. He is 6 now and no problems with patellas, hips or heart. Only health issue so far is he is inclined to have waxy itchy ears.

I have a Cavachon and a Bichon/Maltese. Both little barkers but so affectionate. No moulting and I keep them both clipped short. Both have a high prey drive but so did every other dog I’ve had (all rescues).

To go back to the OP's original question, can I ask someone, possibly @LandSharksAnonymous what is so bad about cross breeding health wise? My adored whippets were cross breeds until not very long ago at all. It is now a full pedigree. It seems to have worked for them. Is the issue with doodles that they are doing too much of it, too quickly? This is a genuine question.

@ACavalierDream I'm not discussing human adoption. It's not a suitable analogy. In the eyes of the law, a dog is a commodity to be bought and sold. A human is not. It's more like recommending someone buy a second hand car rather than one straight off the production line. Or an old house instead of a new build.
The problem of dogs in rescue isn't going to be resolved until breeding restrictions are brought in. A breeder's licence means nothing. It doesn't stop every Tom, Dick and Harry from breeding their pet dog. It also doesn't prevent the hundreds of unregistered crossbreeds being churned out by puppy farms.

I have a small poodle cross and he is lovely, but very needy and a bit anxious. They get absolutely slated on Mumsnet but lots of people I know have them and adore them.

I avoided cavalier cross because of their multiple health issues.

Sadly, that's true. Someone posted a couple of weeks ago about a litter of puppies and it took less then two minutes to discover it was a puppy farm. Thankfully they were steered clear, but many people won't be.

@ACavalierDream Landshark can probably answer much better than me!
The issue is that you may get a healthier dog if you get the healthier of both breeds. Eg adding another breed in could reduce breathing issue in a flat faced breed. BUT you could also get the health problems from both sides of the breeding. So flat faced breathing issues plus the eye issues or hip issues of what you’ve crossed it with.
A really good pedigree breeder (not just any breeder of pedigree dogs though) cares deeply about the health, heritage and breed standard of the breed. They carefully select potential parents and do through breed specific health tests prior to breeding. Eg I have wolfhounds and both parents must be heart tested prior to breeding. That’s a specialised set of tests done by a cardiologist.
A puppy farmer won’t care. And a backyard breeder may not know what tests to do.

Get a whippet. No barking, no dribbling or slobber, no congenital conditions or inbreeding, hardly any fur. Not timid or precious, just affectionate, funny and lazy - with added superpower of 37 mile-per-hour zoomies.

look at Champdogs for proper breeders

Most people breeding crosses don't do the relevant health tests for either breed. They will often use poor examples of the breeds - unhealthy dogs with poor temperaments.
And they are only doing it for the money.

Then we can agree to disagree. I think dogs are not a commodity and neither are children obviously. But the adoption argument stands for both. Do it by all means if you can but don’t shut down someone who can’t. We are all breathing and living animals at the end of the day. Most of us trying to do our best.

I think, from what I can see, that some people who get dogs don’t know where to get advice from. It really is not easy and far from obvious. Take the KC as an obviously misleading place. Those commercial breeders are also very very good. But getting a dog from a show breeder is very hard. And adoption, if you are cut out for it and it’s ok not to be, is difficult. So sadly it makes the commercial breeder (and not all are horrific puppy farms) the only option really. I can see why people do it. The question is, what is the solution?

Because if you don’t know what you are looking for, you will fall for it. So I ask again, what is the solution to make people aware?

So what did the originally whippet crossbreeders got right then? When they did not have health testing back then. Is it because the original pedigrees used for whippets were healthy? Therefore is the issue with doodles that most come from cockers and cavaliers who in my experience are breeds that are too far gone inbreeding wise?

If you like the fluffy look what about a Bedlington Terrier? Lovely intelligent sensitive dogs. They can have some health issues so you’d need to be sensible with the breeders.

I’d love a border terrier but their coat can take a lot of work and they shed!

@ACavalierDream sorry that I can’t answer. I don’t know the history of those breeds well enough.