Dog breeders advice for starting as a breeder.

[fluffbreeder]

I have a question as I’ve been thinking longer term about being a breeder, I’m 50 now and would something I would look to start in 5-8 years, I already own 3 dogs of the breed I love and I’ve had dogs for over 25+ years. We have acres and the space and funds for me to do this and my DH is onboard.

How does anyone start as the KC pups are all breed restricted? I’d love to hear from breeders, did you plan to become one?

this would be my only role as I’m aiming to retire so I’d like to do my research now.

How did you get your first puppy you could breed from and how frequently do you have litters?

Also I do hear there are enough dogs, and it’s an irresponsible thing to do, is that generally the thought of breeders as well? Is this something to just keep a pipe dream?

My plan would be to get the next pup, female and not restricted in the next 2 years, but would a KC breeder sell to me?

many thanks in advance for any advice, good and bad!

Glad I made you laugh @SquashedSquid

@EdithStourton There's much inbetween "a show-line Labrador or a corgi or even a wired working-line dog" and a feral dog. I've got a street dog, free of disease and happily living in the UK. She is in no way feral. Was coming to the UK the best option for her? Undeniably. Do I wish this wasn't the case? Yes, I do. It hasn't and still isn't always easy for either of us but, as I said, I think it was her best option.

Nobody would want any dog living in difficult circumstances, whether feral or not, where the pups would suffer to breed but wild dogs with the space to live reasonable lives... sure.
And anyhow, feral dogs can be fed, wormed and their ancestors can become well rounded pets. Just like the domesticated dogs we call pets these days.

Glad I made you laugh @SquashedSquid

They've been laugh reacting my posts too. It's good to know I'm genuinely hilarious.

@redboxer321 we had a former street dog when I was a kid. He was a wonderful dog. But a lot of them are bloody hard work and just not suitable for families who want a relatively chilled pet.

@EdithStourton
I agree. But does people's desires for a relatively chilled pet justify the dog breeding industry that exists in the UK today?
It's a rhetorical question. And sadly it doesn't matter what anyone on this thread thinks or posts, that industry will persist.

Personally I would rather support people like the OP, asking the questions and trying to gain knowledge than support backyard breeders of random crossbreeds with no health testing or thought.
The reason there are so many abandoned dogs is because of thoughtless breeding, yet this doesn’t feel thoughtless to me.

It depends, surely, on how the dogs are bred?

By a caring experienced breeder who has a litter every few years and does it all by the book and breeds for health and temperament, no problem with that at all.

By someone who mugs up and seeks advice, finds a health tested stud and has a litter or two over the course of a few years, raised in the kitchen and the garden, the bitch remaining a much loved family pet, and perhaps a daughter staying with the family too? I don't have too much of an issue with that. It was how most dogs in my locality used to come into the world - there was a time back in the 80s when a lot of local dogs were descended from a lab x bitch who had two enormous litters.

By someone or several someones who have a vast soulless barn full of small runs (or worse) with bitches who produce the KC maximum of registrable litters and are then used for producing something-poos, who never see daylight and are fobbed off to a rescue when their breeding days are over? Hard no.

All we can do is to keep on trying to educate people: always see the bitch with the litter at home, here is how to be reassured that they are the bitch's pups, Google search any phone number you're given, try and check out the breeder on social media etc.

@EdithStourton
All we can do is to keep on trying to educate people

I think we should do a lot more than that.
But we're not going to. Maybe sometime in the far off future - in fact I think things will change - but not in my lifetime.
So, yes it's better that dogs are bred by someone with experience and who cares than someone who is inexperienced and doesn't care.

@redboxer321 the option is to lobby for regulation, but the government has enough on its plate right now, so....

Oh I'm not laughing with you.

Ohhh I have soft spot for your name, beautiful breed.

Do I? Because I'm disabled? Nah, that was an accident. Nothing to do with my breeding 👍

So why do you want to do it?

Nothing to do with you being disabled. Everything to do with you mocking people on a forum. But logic tells me that you and everyone else knew that.

PS In case you missed it, you haven't laugh emojied my more recent posts.

People said when the laughing emoji was introduced that it would be used inappropriately. I couldn't care less, because to me it's the sign of someone who can't formulate an argument so they resort to childishly laughing. It's all they've got to offer. My 5 year old laughs at me when she hasn't got the words to argue with me. It doesn't bother me then either.

Sorry for late reply.

I started by purchasing a show quality neutered cat and showed this cat for 4 years until it was titled. My second Ragdoll was also a show neuter for the same reason. That ensures you know the standard you are breeding to. Looking at cats tells you nothing, they are all stunning. Showing a cat teaches you exactly what the difference is between an average Ragdoll and an outstanding Ragdoll that will improve the breed if bred from. There are more than enough average Ragdoll’s so that’s important for selecting the breeding queen you start with plus gets you known to other breeders as serious.

I then went on to volunteer as a steward at shows, that gets you know to judges who are invaluable when asking about standards and the improvements needed to the breed etc.

I joined the Ragdoll cat club, almost all breeds have an official club. It is these who sign your application for a prefix (the name you choose as your breeding name that gets added to your kittens pedigree names). I took their breeding seminar course to learn all about breeding Ragdoll’s.

I then took the Pawpeds courses to learn all about genetics, colour inheritance, preventing genetic diseases etc.

By the time I had done all this my second Ragdoll was also titled and I had a large number of people involved in Ragdoll’s that I had become friendly with. I spoke to a breeder whose cats I thought met all the criteria for being a good breeding cat and asked if she would mentor me. I shadowed her through her next litter, attending the birth at 2am and following her through the kitten journey.

At the end of this I then bought one of the kittens that I had witnessed being born as my first breeding queen.

Of course I could have simply gone and bought any random Ragdoll and skipped all of this work beforehand but then I would be yet another backyard breeder producing yet more average Ragdoll’s as anyone selling you an active (registered for breeding) cat without making sure you know what you’re doing first won’t have the best quality cats as they also don’t really know what their doing.

In dogs it doesn’t necessarily have to be the show world you’re involved in, it could be agility, field work etc. whatever is relevant to your breed. But you need to know your breed inside and out, the good, the bad and the ugly, before you even start looking into breeding and that takes time and commitment.

Yes I had a job, but almost every weekend was spent at shows or on courses. I used a lot of annual leave to attend training dates and when my breeders litter was due etc. But that’s what you have to do as a breeder. Annual leave for holidays almost never happens as it’s all used for when kittens are due to make sure I’m around for those early weeks.

It’s interesting that you are so anti breeders yet you imported a rescue dog to the UK, when there are enough rescue dogs already here looking for homes and a huge proportion of these imported rescue dogs are not really rescue dogs but are bought from puppy farmers. It’s a huge issue with Romanian rescues that many are simply puppy farmers selling their dogs to people in the U.K. under the guise of rescue. I’d call that far far more unethical and harmful to dogs than responsible breeding.

I didn't import a dog to the UK but thanks for the judgement.
And as for the other assertions you make, I notice you haven't backed them up with any facts. I imagine there is some truth in what you say but not to the extent that you indicate.
I do agree that transporting dogs half way across Europe can't be the solution to the dog problem in parts of mainland Europe, especially as as you say the UK has its own dog problem, but the human race aren't great at coming up with solutions to the problems they create.

As for 'showing' an animal, I find the whole concept repugnant. Sorry but I do.
Not sure why you needed to show a neutered cat to learn about breeding either.
Having said that, you've obviously put in a lot of time and effort and are presuming producing healthy cats which is obviously a positive.

As I've said, it's at then demand end that things have to change because if 'responsible' breeders stopped breeding that void would be filled with irresponsible breeders producing less healthy animals.
But I'd like to see every cat that is suitable for re-homing rehomed before any more are produced. And if that means some people don't get to adopt an adult cat because their circumstances are not suitable or they want only a kitten and that you don't get to engage in your hobby, so be it.

Excuse me?

Carry on using the laugh emoji to mock people seems to be the message from MN and posters aren't even allowed to point that out. Great message.

Dear lord 🤦🏼‍♀️🤣

This.
Plus it looks like the Govn might be clamping down on numbers of breeders or making it harder to be registered.
On the News yesterday or the day before.

Rescues exist because there are too many dogs.
Reduce the number reduce the problem.

I don’t see what the problem is with not having a pedigree.
If you love animals and you’d like to add a dog to the family what does it matter.

If you’re choosing to adopt a child do you specifically only specify a type, blond, short nose etc. No. Because that’s wrong. You chose a personality

Apart from that for the dogs sake you make sure you can deal with size and energy levels.
A lactating dog on the streets is deserving of a home and love and care just as much as any, if not more given the hardship they may very well have endured.

I find your comments about ‘random bred dogs’ as you call them upsetting and distasteful