It's an ethics question

[Pumpkintopf]

Just would like others' opinions on this really-

A dear elderly friend has asked me to be executor for her will. She has two six year old dogs, chihuahuas. When discussing her will and plans she stated that she wants her son to take the dogs after her death and have them put to sleep. This is regardless of the age and health of the dogs at the time of her death, or whether her husband survives her.

She wasn't open to any suggestions I came up with including cinnamon trust, leaving money in her will to provide for the dogs' insurance and care to encourage adoption etc. She tells me her son agrees with her views, in her opinion the dogs would be unhappy in any other environment and 'there are worse things than an easy death'.

I'm trying to understand but tbh this is really playing on my mind and I'm not sure I can continue to be involved as it's so far removed from my own views. Am I being unreasonable? (Have deliberately posted here as particularly want the views of dog people!)

Thanks

I'm a dog person and think this is completely abhorrent.

I'm really struggling with it. I even offered to have the dogs myself but she wouldn't countenance it. I do have two dogs of my own and wouldn't ideally want two more but if I took them on would do my very best for them.

It also feels very hard as she was already elderly when she bought these dogs - I don't know if this was always her intention for them. She has said she doesn't think she could be happy without an animal but if the dogs die first she'd get a cat rather than another dog as they are more adaptable...

I doubt a vet would agree to do it.

@Whisperingsummerishere I did wonder about this. My DM who I asked for advice (who is appalled) feels this could come back to me as executor to resolve if her wishes couldn't be honoured.

I'm really feeling upset over the whole situation.

I totally agree with you and I think I’d have to end any association with her over this .

I couldn't agree to that. Dogs are amazingly adaptable and she's being totally unreasonable - and selfish to have acquired dogs when elderly knowing that she might predecease them.

It's as if she thinks that her dogs adore her so much that they couldn't cope with living with anyone else, and isn't even willing to give them the chance.

My mum has done the same and has okayed it with her vet.
The dog is now 15 but she planned this years ago.

In her opinion the dog would not be happy living with anyone else. I find this extremely arrogant.
There are very few dogs who would not adapt to a different home, especially if there are 2 of them and they are rehomed together.
With my mum's dog, and the fact she has recently had a vestibular attack and her age, I think it would now be the correct decision but didn't agree when she first told me.

That's awful.
I would struggle to consider her a friend after that, and I'm not even a huge dog person. Maybe she should have purchased a couple of stuffed animals instead.
Would a vet even agree to this?

I have a friend who has decided something like this. She has a GSD. It's incredibly aggressive, reactive, nervous. Hates men, cats, children, other dogs. No bite history - but rehoming it would be tricky and a risk for anyone tbh. But she won't even countenance the dog being rehomed (if something happens to her) as it literally cannot even cope when she leaves the house with it (its sick, cries, screams). It's 100% her baby. It worships her.

No one will ever convince me she's doing the wrong thing. She's only 30, so chances are she will outlive the dog. But...even if she dies tomorrow (and the dogs 3 now) it'll be PTS.

Unless you know your friends dogs well enough to know all their behavioural issues and how bad things like SA are, I wouldn't judge. I'd be uncomfortable, but dogs can be really tricky about owners - and it is cruel to potentially stick a dog in kennels for years that won't ever be rehomed. And dogs with behavioural issues are a struggle to get adopted. You've not said the dogs ages or if it has any issues...and tbh that would influence my decision here.

I don’t like this either but re homing centres are over flowing, no guarantees they’d actually get a home. Dogs over 5 are much less likely to be adopted. I’m guessing she is making sure they don’t spend their life sitting waiting for a home. Just to try to put a better perspective on her thinking around this!

I actually don't think it's the worst thing in the world, though I can understand why it makes you feel so uncomfortable.

Some dogs are really tricky and wouldn't adapt well at all to being left with a new owner or to being stuck in kennels for months. There are stories all over social media of dogs who have been in kennels for years because of their behaviour issues and honestly if I knew that was a risk for my dog, I would rather he went to sleep peacefully than lived his days out in a rescue centre.

I think I’d talk to her son and take the dogs anyway should it happen. I couldn’t let them be put to sleep

It could be her son has “agreed” with her but has no intention of actually doing it

I have had to put to sleep dogs before in similar situations, it’s actually quite common - sometimes family members struggled on with the dog for a few weeks/months (including one memorable one where the dog was kept in the garden of the deceased owner’s empty house, on its own other than food being thrown in).

In these situations, as a vet I would always ask if the owners had explored rehoming options (which are few and far between these days) but I wouldn’t ultimately refuse, if they were sure in their decision.

Death isn’t a welfare issue - dead animals can’t suffer. We find it unpalatable but dogs don’t have a fear or understanding of death like we do, and I think if an owner feels there is no good option for the dogs after their death, or lots of uncertainty, then putting them to sleep is a valid option. In your situation, the son obviously agrees with his mum that it’s appropriate.

I can see where she's coming from. It's hard to re-home older dogs and it's hard to re-home a pair of dogs together.

However the right decision for the dogs will depend on their age and health when the time comes. There's a time when euthanasia is definitely wrong and one when it's definitely right, but there's a long time in between when either decision is ok. That's why you get so many people asking how you know when it's time. It's not clear cut.

Would she agree to saying that on her death, euthanasia should be considered as one of the appropriate options for the dogs after discussion with their vet and a rehoming charity?

Where did she get the dogs from? She may have agreed at the time to return them to the breeder or rescue if she could no longer take care of them, perhaps this is another option she could consider.

Finally I'm not sure how enforceable a will stipulating euthanasia would actually be. You can leave possessions to people but surely you can't mandate what they do with them.

I agree that it would be better for the dog to be pts rather than risk the upset of sitting in kennels for months or ending up in a home where they're not treated the same as what they're used to. We're putting our own feelings onto the animal; better no suffering and a peaceful end for them. As someone who has rehomed many dogs, cats, chickens and horses from rescues, bad situations etc I would rather they had that peaceful end than end up back where they started.

I find it stupid not unethical.

It sounds awful but there are not people at rescues queuing up for a bonded pair of older dogs. And if it saved then being sat in kennels for a huge period of time I think it’s maybe not the worst decision.

I couldn’t agree to be her executor. If her husband is still alive and in their home and the dogs aren’t elderly or unwell? There is no justification.
My will stipulates that if I die my dogs go to a dear friend they adore. Cinnamon Trust offers permanent foster. No kennels. There are better options.

So just don't get a dog if there's a high chance you'll die first. I find it incredible that some people can have so little value for a living creature.

@Rolson77 I do have value for them, which is why I'd rather they fell asleep peacefully with someone who cared for them and didn't spend months or years languishing in a rescue centre.

The vast majority of dogs don't cope well in rescue and the reality is nobody is going to want to rehome a pair of bonded old dogs with behavioural issues.

It might be unpalatable to hear but we also need to remember that dogs aren't people and that there are far worse fates than death.

These dogs would not be in kennels looking for a home though because they could potentially stay with the husband or the OP has said she would take them if necessary

I can see circumstances (like the GSD that @Devilshands talked about upthread, or where a dog is very old and on its last legs anyway) where PTS in the event of the owner's death is the best that can be done. But these dogs are only 6, OP has offered to take them in the event of her friend's death: there is no excuse for their owner's attitude.

To clarify what I said earlier, I think it's unethical to acquire a dog in later life with the intention to have it PTS when you die. It's not unethical to get a dog just because you are old, provided you have fair odds of being able to fulfill its needs into the foreseeable future. Plenty of people do so, and arrange for friends or family to have the dog should they be unable to cope or should they die.

In fairness, the husband may not want the dogs and they may have behavioural issues that OP is totally unaware of.

I'm not saying that PTS is ideal but I do think that people have idealised views of what happens to older dogs when their owners pass away, and in some cases it's certainly not the unkindest option.

I would refuse to be executor. It must be traumatic for vets to PTS healthy animals. I would tell her that I wouldn't feel happy being executor and the reasons why. She can then choose someone else - the son?

I’d want to do what’s best for the dogs. So I’d agree to be executor and then see what the best option seemed after her death. She may outlive the dogs or change her mind before she dies.
I’d be open to going against her wishes after death if it seems best for the dogs. But also, it’s a good point that in a few years a pair of older dogs may not do that well in kennels.