Stud Fees

[ConciseQueen]

I have found my bitch a lovely dog to sire pups. The owner of the dog is pretty relaxed, doesn’t want a puppy but has asked me to make an offer of stud fees. He’s stressed nothing is guaranteed from the dogs’ meeting etc.

Neither dog is worth much (lurchers) but they are lovely so I will be able to sell the puppies to cover vet costs if the time comes. How much would you offer for the stud fee?

A backyard breeder is someone who isn't breeding for show or working purposes, if you're just breeding one litter from a crossbreed non-show non-working dog then you are a backyard breeder, quite literally.

Are you also prepared for all those people who expressed an interest in a puppy to vanish or change their mind? They often do. The idea of having a puppy is very different to the reality. You would also need a puppy contract that states you take the dog back if they can no longer keep it - it's the lack of this which is why so many dogs like Lurchers end up in rescue in the first place.

If you weren't a backyard breeder, you wouldn't need to ask these questions which show you've no idea what you're actually doing.

Is there a reason these people who want a puppy won’t look at rescues?

You say you love your dog, but why would you put her through pain and discomfort if you genuinely do?

Given your familiarity surely you know stud fees? Just another selfish human.

Thanks all. As a rescuer myself, I understand why you are all so passionate about this. However, to put this in perspective this is a normal, healthy dog going through a normal natural process with the care and input of a vet.

The reason I am asking about stud fees is because I have never bred a dog before. Just looking for advice like everyone else on here. If it was veterinary advice I needed I would have asked the vet. If it was rescue advice, I’d have asked a rescue. But as it was financial advice, I thought I would try here.

Exactly- you’ve never bred before - gods sake, get a puppy from the pound- there’s bloody thousands of them.

The reason the 'usual price' for a stud fee is £800+ is because responsible breeders pay to get their dog hip scored/elbow graded (x-rated to check the grade of the hips, vital in breeds prone to hip dysplasia) so it can be mated to a bitch with appropriate comparative scores for healthy puppies, as well as other breed related health testing to prevent passing on conditions that might lead to problems in the future, eg, eye conditions, heart conditions.

Or, of course, you can just look into your crystal ball.

X-rayed, not x-rated, stupid Freudian phone.

This. Rescues are full of lovely lurchers, why breed more?

Being a lurcher, is she part collie? If so, both dogs need hip score tests (carried out via xray then checked by BVA, this can take weeks), dna testing for pra, cea, dm, dms and mdr1, the results take weeks to come back and cost hundreds of pounds. MDR1 is a must for the bitch if you don't know her status already as certain drugs could kill her.

You will need to stay with them at night after they are born to make sure none are smoothered by the mother.

Of course you’re a backyard breeder. And as you don’t seem to know what breeds your dog is made up of you haven’t had the screening that certain breeds need. Just because a bitch is lovely doesn’t mean it is guaranteed to have a healthy pregnancy, birth and healthy pups. Yes you want to keep one but can you also offer lifelong support to all puppy owners? Screen for suitable homes? Take back puppies if there are any issues?
I wouldn’t. And I have two lovely girls.

Just don’t.
There are more lovely, sweet-tempered dogs (inc. lurchers) than there are homes for. Why would anyone want to add to that distressing, awful problem ?
These puppies you are thinking of bringing into the world will take up a home that a dog in a rescue could have. How fucking selfish.
Why ???

Completely agree.

OP could you clarify what part of ‘I love my dog’ means causing her pain?

(Although I feel this post is probably a wind-up ...)

Stud fees are traditionally the price of a puppy, so if you would be expecting to sell a pup for say £500, that's what you would expect to pay as a stud fee.

However, Lord help you if you get a large litter at the moment. I hope you're ready for half a dozen of them doing the wall of death round your house at 6 months, because puppies really are not selling well at the moment. You should be prepared to have them far longer than 8 weeks.

The complete lack of concern for dogs in shelters is actually fucking disgusting.
‘I really love my dog and so do other people so I’d like to breed her’ is so irresponsible, cruel and, as above, fucking disgusting.

If you are not health testing, as above, you should absolutely not be breeding.
I am assuming that the proposed mate is untested, due to the vagueness of the stud fee.

My dog has a RCC and a stud book number, but I wouldn't allow him to be used as a stud without doing the relevant health tests (some are hereditary clear but eyes are required to be tested annually and hip scoring would need doing). Any potential bitch would need the same tests doing and would need to compliment any areas that are weaker in my dog. ie breeding to improve on what you already have, not just because 'my dog is nice'..
This is why stud fees are expensive, because doing it right is expensive.

But regardless of the ethics, it could end up being a very bad experience all around.

I know someone who did this, because they loved their dog so much they wanted her puppies. She was a perfectly healthy dog with a lovely temperament. Her labour didn't progress, a puppy was stuck. She had an emergency C-Section. That puppy was dead and another died a few days later. Perhaps because she didn't birth them naturally, she didn't realize they were her pups. She wanted nothing to do with them and became aggressive when they came close. They had to muzzle her to allow them to nurse. The owner was up 2 hourly around the clock to supplement them and help them toilet.

Anyway, the remaining pups lived and the bitch eventually recovered from her C-Section, with a pretty big scar. But just to say it can turn out being a nightmare.

You haven’t addressed the issue of there being too many dogs for loving homes , yet you want to create more dogs.
The only concern you seem to have is the stud fees.
Could you please answer how you square breeding dogs (as a backyard breeder, which is what you, farm or terraced house) with the thousands of dogs in shelters ?

The complete lack of concern for dogs in shelters is actually fucking disgusting.

I think that’s a logical leap too far. Because someone buys a puppy does not automatically mean a dog in rescue is not rescued. I also think you may have missed the bit where I mentioned about my own rescues.

I get that you are angry - but you’re getting aggressive with someone who has a loved and looked after dog.

However, the ‘fucking disgusting’ and ‘fucking selfish’ posts and general drama of some of these replies does make me glad I spoke to my vet. She at least had some perspective - and no concerns.

A farm op? So an actual puppy farm then?

OP I think you're getting a hard time here.
It's fine to breed your dog, it is weird that it has become so taboo.
The owner of the dog doesn't seem fussed about money or they would have specified so I'd probably offer 100 and a bottle of wine/dinner or something.
Some considered breeding from pets surely is the perfect antidote to puppy farms. People, understandably, sometimes want a puppy rather than an adult from rescue. And, the clamour around 'full' rescues because of irresponsible back yard breeders doesn't add up because most rescues are full of dogs rescued from abroad. So taking laws of supply and demand into account it seems there aren't enough dogs in this country as they are imported in such numbers.
If more people had one litter from a special pet to pass on to friends and networks for a reasonable price to cover costs it would reduce puppy farming and harm to dog caused by it. Also, the genetic tests are needed because of inbreeding in pedigree populations, much less of an issue when breeding happens as OP proposes.
I understand why there was a strategic move towards more regulated dog breeding but it has led to unfortunate unintended consequences and we need to challenge current thinking.

My dog's sire stud fee was £1500. He is fully health tested with great scores for the breed, annually eye tested and shown and won classes extensively and has just gained a champ ticket. His owners and the people who use him breed for health and temperament.

Dogs are individuals. Offspring are in no way guaranteed to be temperamentally or physically like their parents but even less so in a mixed breed like a lurcher. It really is a big gamble.

glad I spoke to my vet. She at least had some perspective - and no concerns

What was it you asked her to do? Check that your bitch is in normal health? Or carry out any form of genetic screening?

Have to actually checked what screening is advised for the various breeds in your lurcher, and that someone has done the same for the proposed stud?

Vets don't carry out any such screening tests unless you request them

The OP isn’t answering any questions as she clearly is only interested in whether the selling price will be in excess of the stud/ vets fees.
OP, can I ask again what your thoughts are on all the lovely lurchers in kennels, lonely and have no home to go to. I really would be interested in your reply ?