Puppy crying all night

[daisypup]

As thread title suggests he cries ALL NIGHT. He is now 5 months old and I don't know if we can keep him as it's disturbing the neighbours and our children.

When we first got him he cried all night in his crate (10-6) without stopping. He did this for almost a week and then started sleeping through the night. He started again about a month ago, and went on for a week until we decided to give up the crate and give him the run of the dining room at night.

He has started doing it again since yesterday and I don't know why.

He is downstairs, and doesn't seem to like being left on his own at night. Having him upstairs with us is not an option, due to our house being a terrace but also personal preference.

Has anyone experienced anything like this? I don't know anyone who has had a dog cry for this long without stopping, and for so many nights.

I love him dearly and don't want to give him up but this really isn't manageable for anyone. I'm on anxiety medication because of the impact. My children are waking and upset at school because he's keeping them up.

I wouldn't worry about the cats they're in charge anyway. I'm lying on the bed typing this but not alone 🤣🤣

@justasking111 oh that is lovely. I can't wait for the day when the puppy and cats can relax together. We have been taking it very slow and they are just getting to the point where they can hang out together in the kitchen (if they think they're going to get treats!) so I think we will get there one day

Great advice. A lot of MNetters seem to confuse domesticated dog puppies with some weirdo combo of baby human and baby wolf.

People love to shout down 'outdated advice' about dog training on this forum, yet they're still wanging on about dogs being pack animals. It's been at least 10,000 years since domesticated dogs' ancestors were living in groups and, as you say, even then they were not really packs.

Are you walking him enough? Does he get one last walk in the evening? You might just have the wrong breed/dog. Almost none of the toy breeds are good with separation anxiety and would be particularly happy sleeping downstairs. They're rather a category of clingy companion dogs. If all else fails hopefully you've gotten him from a reputable breeder who I'm sure will rehome him.

At this age he can't walk for longer than 25 minutes due to growing, he gets a morning walk and an early evening walk which tends to not be very far as he doesn't like walking in the dark. He has a big garden to run around in during the day, and at weekends we take him to puppy socialisation where he can run around with other pups.

Yes the breeder said before we took him home that if it didn't work out then she would want us to tell her so she could rehome him herself. That really is a last resort for us though.

I think a lot of people misuse the term 'pack animal'. A pack animal is one that lives and hunts in groups. I think what most people mean when they use the term is that dogs like to be with their owners/familes and don't like to be left on their own - which is true.

We had this with our now 3 year old dog, she woke up cried and wouldn't stop. After the first few nights DH set up a bed downstairs with her but she continued to cry every hour. After 2 weeks of awful, broken sleep we spoke to the breeder, she said put the crate right next to my side of the bed. She woke once and settled when I put my hand in, after that she slept through without a peep. We kept the crate in our room and moved it towards the door when she was reliably sleeping through. When she was about 1 year old we moved the crate downstairs again and she continued to sleep through. She was a baby and she just needed the closeness to me for a while. We also lived in a terrace, our neighbours heard the noise when she was crying downstairs. They also noticed when we brought her upstairs and it stopped. We had a cat who had the upstairs as his sanctuary. Pup was crated upstairs at night and downstairs during the day (stair gate) so it continued to be his sanctuary even though she was upstairs over night.

I think what most people mean when they use the term is that dogs like to be with their owners/familes and don't like to be left on their own - which is true.

I think so too - so I normally try to read it with that interpretation, except when pack leadership is also mentioned. Then I think it really important to understand why that idea won't help much to understand the domestic dog's behaviour. (fwiw it doesn't help much to understand wolf behaviour, either - but that's a whole different thread!)

In fact, I find it useful to remember WHY dogs like to be with humans: they are neotenic (they retain juvenile chracterictics, even when grown). To over simplify, they remain in need of their familiar attachments, like a juvenile does. When you understand that dogs never quite grow up to be the mature, independent animals that their ancestors might heve been, a lot of their behavioiur becomes clearer.

We selectively breed them to need us and then often get frustrated they need us quite so much

Op I am not sure why you are getting such a hard time!

Some puppies are hard work and some puppies have not read the MN book about sleeping!

I never ever ever have dogs in my room - many reasons but the main one is that I have dialysis machine working in the room at night and can not have the dogs around whilst that is working. However my dogs are ok and not neglected even if MN think they are

Southend Dogs are not behaviourists he has an online qualification costing a few hundred pounds and not accredited by anyone(and knowing the course he did he is not teaching what he learnt!)

Leaving dogs to cry it out was the advice given out in the 70's but things have moved on from then.

Can I ask the breed of your dog?

Some dogs are way more prone to Separation Anxiety and this does make things much harder for the new owners. Good breeders usually put in loads of training to make this easier for the puppies but loads of new hobby breeders dont do this at all, which again makes things hard for the new owners.

How does your puppy sleep in the day?

If they are not getting much nighttime sleep they must be getting sleep in the day?

Where do they choose to sleep?
Where are you when they sleep in the day?

All the posts saying dogs are pack animals are wrong just so wrong I hope they read @SirSniffsAlot posts to get their facts right. They are social animals

I also think you are getting a hard time about not having your pup upstairs.
Our dog doesn't sleep upstairs, never has. Wouldn't have anywhere to sleep in our room anyway as its so small it only has our bed in it!
When ours was a pup I stayed down with him for a week or so. He has the run of the downstairs at night and sleeps on the sofa.
If you allowed the dog upstairs and he terrified the cats you'd be slated for that aswel.

@IngGenius thank you! He is a Lhasa Apso. Yes the nights where he has been barking all night he tends to be exhausted the following day.

He doesn't sleep in any one place as he tends to like to move around a lot, he has two beds (one in dining room and one in living room) but will also sleep on the floor, on sofa etc. He never chooses his crate. When the children are home and he seems over tired (bitey) we put him in his playpen (in the living room with us) and he will sleep in there, he also goes in there voluntarily sometimes. He is ok with being left in the day for a couple of hours, as we have built up to this. But if we are about and moving around (cleaning etc) then he won't sleep as wants to follow us. If we are at home he will want to sleep near us.

That is so interesting about Southend dog school. I was recommended him by so many people and the trainers on in his membership have been really responsive but as I've said it isn't working and leading us all to be unhappy. I've only gone to them for advice regarding sleep as the other difficulties we've had I've known how to tackle as I did so much research. I just wasn't prepared for this

@AnnieKayTee thank you

We’re on our fourth puppy. We’ve never allowed them upstairs and we’ve never slept downstairs with them.

We weren’t prepared at all for a dog either. We thought we were but the toilet training & sleep thing nearly killed me. 2 years on we have a lovely calm doggy who we all love . You’ll get there.

He needs to be near you
Some are happy alone and some aren't
I would settle him on a chair next to your bed where you can stroke him so he is reassured
I know you say you don't want him upstairs for " personal reasons" but invest in him emotionally now and he will settle by himself.
I'm not comparing the two exactly because he is a dog not a baby, but at the moment his needs are the same
You can buy a dog toy with a heartbeat inside(!) which may soothe him

we have had 2 rescues. Neither were puppies. (one after another, not together)
But they were very needy and wanted to be with us.
We had them sleeping downstairs, but but they cried and barked, so we allowed them up and thye slept outside our bedroom door or my sons bedroom door.

It took them both about 6 months to settle, and then we noticed that they were much more chill about where they slept, often choosing to go down to their bed rather than upstairs, and also not needing to be so velcro. But they both follow(ed) me round.
If I am working upstairs, they are upstairs, if I am sitting in the lounge, they are in the lounge, if I am cooking they are under the kitchen table.
Neither mind(ed) being left for a few hours, but when at home they just like to hang out where we are.

I think you need to allow time for this dog to properly settle into your family and that is months not weeks.
No reason for them to be upstairs (we also have an upstairs cat) but that may mean one of you sleeping downstairs for a while. Onc ehtye feel secure, they will not need it so much.

I notice that you said he never goes in his crate by choice. If that is the case then his crate is NOT his safe space, and he is distressed when put in it. If it isn't working, just get rid of it. Or go bakc and retrain him with crate as a safe space

I never gave the poster a hard time. Was trying to give constructive advice..I was meaning really that all puppies are different. When I met my DH 35 years ago,we both had dogs, mine got sick, PTS. We had his (bitch,) RSPCA inspector came round, checked all our animals,we had quarter of an acre of garden, backing into fields on the edge of a village. She put "medium size garden". I told her she was crazy. Then came the tub, they said you can't have 2 bitches,DH had only had this one and didn't want a dog. She was 18 when finally PTS. We bought a border collie puppy,were given another one,6 months apart,both bitches. I worked full time nights then,4 DKs was also looking after my GS and then my friends 4 kids,3 after school, and one aged 2. I look back in amazement!!

If you can't meet his needs then surrender him to someone who can. You can't predict the dog you are going to get unfortunately and this dog isn't coping on his own. He won't get used to it and if he does stop crying it isn't because he's happy it's because he's learned helplessness. There's no point crying any more - this will lead to further problems for you.

You're not currently treating him like a dog you're treating him like a goldfish. The reason they're such good companions is that they want to be with you. I can't believe people still believe outdated rubbish they find on the internet and treat animals like shit.

You've picked a companion breed known for being highly strung and anxious and that are prone to separation anxiety. Lhasa's are not dogs who do well being left and generally like being around their family or their people.

They were also originally bred to be watchdogs in Tibet which is why they like to bark so much. They're doing their job.

You need to work with his breed instincts rather than trying to fight them.

My mother had three of them over the years, you're right about their habits

Lhasa Apso are not usually highly strung or anxious They are alert watch and guarding dogs originally. Hence their ability to bark (a lot!). I dont think in 30 yrs that I have ever had a Lhasa Apso in for Separation Anxiety - rg , barking and aggression yes but not SA.

OP I would try to work on a sleeping place in the day time - so when she falls asleep move her to the place - make this the comfiest place in the house to be.

If this is too hard then have a blanket that is put near her or move her onto when she sleeps. Stay near her to start with but gradually move away from her in the day time when she is sleeping. Get her used to being in this place to relax and sleep. Ironically the more sleep she gets in the day the better she will sleep at night, the calmer she will be and the less stressed she will be and the better her sleep will be. So do encourage daytime sleep.

Ideally I would sleep next to her in the night with her being in the same sleep place as the daytime with the same sleep blanket she has had in the daytime. Ignore any attention seeking behaviour eg trying to play etc but do reassure her if she whines. Over time you will be able to move away from her and back into your bed. This too will pass( I promise!)

@IngGenius thank you for this, this is really helpful. Definitely something we encourage while we work, we could bring his bed into our office space/whatever room we are working in to encourage him to sleep in that bed in the day.

Yes, my research told me that Lhasa apsos are not know for separation anxiety despite being a companion dog. I knew they barked, daytime barking was never a worry though or even a bit in the night. I've focussed on training and socialisation as I knew that needs to be the focus for this breed. But obviously now I need to focus on making night times better for us all.

Lhasa Apso are not usually highly strung or anxious

I've personally never met a single one that wasn't. Of course, that could be bad breeding or a lack of socialisation but it's obviously not uncommon as lots of other posters have had the same experience as well.

I think they are very misunderstood.

They are really guardy dogs so will react loudly if they see people especially new people but that is not being highly strung or anxious it is what they are bred to do. Bark at intruders. Guard their spaces (this is where rg can come into the picture). If they are bored they will bark, if they are not motivated they will bark and destroy things. People may expect that in larger dogs but the cute Lhasa Apso gets the label of being stubborn and highly strung.

They are very very bright dogs (often called stubborn) but are very trainable if the right reinforcement is used and training is fun for them. They will learn what they want to learn but if they are do not want to learn they can challenge some owners. They will not be happy do loads of repetition in an obedience class for example they are way to clever to do things over and over again!

They are not true companion dogs. The bichon for example will be happier to meet and greet new people than a Lhasa Apso . People think they are similar types of small dogs they are not. The Lhasa Apso is a big big loud dog in a little fluffy coat. A bichon is a little dog in a little fluffy coat.

They are very bright active dogs and excel at activities and will do zoomies into their teen years if not given enough exercise or enrichment.

Given the chance they are awesome at scentwork, agility and even herd sheep - I have a fab video of a foster herding the sheep almost as well as the collies

Yes this is what my research taught me. I spent lots of time with the mum and dad dog too. I learned that they were really intelligent so I have put lots into training and socialising, and at the training class it is really clear that he is a clever dog.