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Original poster

Puppy crying all night

158 replies

daisypup · 07/12/2023 23:15

As thread title suggests he cries ALL NIGHT. He is now 5 months old and I don't know if we can keep him as it's disturbing the neighbours and our children.

When we first got him he cried all night in his crate (10-6) without stopping. He did this for almost a week and then started sleeping through the night. He started again about a month ago, and went on for a week until we decided to give up the crate and give him the run of the dining room at night.

He has started doing it again since yesterday and I don't know why.

He is downstairs, and doesn't seem to like being left on his own at night. Having him upstairs with us is not an option, due to our house being a terrace but also personal preference.

Has anyone experienced anything like this? I don't know anyone who has had a dog cry for this long without stopping, and for so many nights.

I love him dearly and don't want to give him up but this really isn't manageable for anyone. I'm on anxiety medication because of the impact. My children are waking and upset at school because he's keeping them up.

OP posts:
BethDuttonsTwin · 08/12/2023 09:50

He will grow out of it. They pretty much all do as long as it’s handled properly while they’re puppies. By the time he is two this will likely be a distant memory. To ensure that happens though, you’re going to need to put some hard work in now. Just bring him upstairs - I know you say it’s personal preference not to but for now you have to. This will pass.

Original poster
daisypup · 08/12/2023 09:50

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow thank you I think this is going to be what I try next.

OP posts:
PanettonePuff · 08/12/2023 09:52

Assumptions were made because you had only given us drip feeds. If you had said that you were both wfh, and told us the breed in your earlier posts, others in similar situations would have had more specific advice. With regards to your DC, and you getting up in the night to deal with diabetes etc, the puppy will hear you moving round and want to join you. My lazy GSD will hear me sometimes in the night and cry to come up for cuddles (she’s 8, so the ‘desire for company’ thing never seems to leave some dogs) Whilst apparently dogs are not now pack animals, they do certainly suffer from FOMO, and nosiness and love being around us, so if you are definitely refusing pup coming upstairs to you, I really don’t know where you go with this. I had a whiney male GSD about 40 years ago, and we tried it all, and ended getting a GSD lady for him… it worked, he just wanted company… but it was a whole load of something we had bargained for!!😱

StopWithYourNonsense · 08/12/2023 09:54

Dogs are pack animals - which means they belong in a pack with others. He was taken from his mother and siblings, given to you, his new pack. You kept him in a cage but then have left his downstairs, alone. He's lonely. Solution - have his bed in your roo, or at least on the landing, with a bedroom door open so that he can see, smell or hear a member of the family.

The moral of the story - do some research before you get an animal

Newpeep · 08/12/2023 09:55

Try it and see. Our pup has always slept so well she doesn't stir in the night if we need to do anything, including medication when my husband had a major op a few months ago. Talking, light on, she watched, yawned and settled back to sleep because she was safe, secure and she, as all dogs do, has learnt by association that her closed then open crate was sleep space and time so when she was in there it was time to zzzz.

Try it - pup may surprise you ;)

SirSniffsAlot · 08/12/2023 09:56

Dogs are pack animals.

They are not pack animals. A pack is a stable, hardly changing group of individuals who live together as a secure unit. It rarely changes, save for birth and death. Wolves are often pack animals but despite the common ancestor, dogs are not wolves.

We make dogs live like that but feral dogs do not choose to live like that. They form loose and constantly changing social groups of varying size and make up. Who is 'in' the group varies from hour to day to week.

There are a large number of key social differences between dogs and wolves and the instinct to form a pack (or not) is one of the biggies. It's important because, if a group had a tendancy towards an established linear hierarchy (ie an alpha etc) it would need stability in it's membership. Dogs don't have the instinct for that - they do not form linear hierarchies when they group together. There are individuals who want, or are more likely to fight to gain, or maintain, resources but that's a personality thing and does not make them the boss.

OP, your puppy is 5 months old. If feral, this dog may still be sleeping at night with mum and littermates. That's why they are crying. For sure, some dogs cope better with isolation at an earlier age and some learn more quickly that crying is pointless. But that's also a personality thing. A 5 month old crying puppy is not abornomal - it is entirely within the spectrum of normal puppy behaviour. For the most part, feral young dogs will start to migrate away from mum at 6 months+ with some staying quite a few months longer than that, depending on the individual.

At this age, your dog needs reassurance. If they feel safe and confident, you set them up for the next stage of their development: which is to find independence. (Of course, that will come with a whole heap of other challenges and problems! Smile)

I would start each night sleeping downstairs and then quickly migrate up, leaving your pup. When they cried, I would go down and settle them in as calm and boring a manner as possible, then leave them again. Reassure, reassure, reassure. And have patience. Of the dog still cannot be left at night by about 1 year old, then you have an unusually needy dog.

p.s. reassurance will not reward the behaviour, in case you worry about that. Whenever a behaviour is driven by a negative emotion (such as crying when left alone) you focus on changing the emotion first, and the behaviour will follow. You don't focus on changing the behaviour and hope the emotion falls in line. Your dog is scared, so that is the emotion you need to change.

p.p.s. Dog Training on FB is very good. Southend Dog Training is not. Just to add my voice to the others.

yumyum33 · 08/12/2023 09:59

BeadedBubbles · 07/12/2023 23:47

@tomatoontoast - I don't treat my dogs like children thank you. But I do see them as a commitment and would never - as you so charmingly put it - get rid. Especially for something as easy to resolve as night time crying.

Yes, totally agree. I've had four dogs and have never had a problem with them. They've all slept upstairs to be near the pack and have settled down accordingly. Let the puppy have his basket somewhere nearer you at night. Poor dog.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 08/12/2023 09:59

What I'm surprised is that OP says she did her research, and she's complaining of paper thin walls, yet she decided to go for a Lhasa apso.

It's barky breed. It's what they do.

Original poster
daisypup · 08/12/2023 10:01

@SirSniffsAlot thank you this is very helpful.
I am prepared for the other challenges (we have had a few already 😅) but this is the one that we haven't been able to work out. So hearing this is really useful and given us something to try, whilst knowing it won't be forever.

OP posts:
TedMullins · 08/12/2023 10:03

It doesn’t sound like you’re the right home for a dog tbh. And the cats, they’re probably stressed by this new creature in their space. It is cruel to leave him to cry, and don’t listen to anything Southend dog training says. They’re not behaviourists, they promote the use of cruelty like prong collars and punishment training, none of which works - it’s been debunked by science, dogs respond to reward based training that shows them what good behaviours are. This will create anxiety. Join the dog training advice and support group on Facebook for reputable information.

Would you expect a human baby to be fine sleeping all night alone without crying? No? Then why expect it of a dog, babies of all species have similar instincts. You need to sleep with him and gradually train him to be alone - ideally this would be a bed in your room gradually being moved out of it, but as you’re insistent you can’t do that, you do need to be downstairs with him or frequently going in to settle him like you would with a baby.

MindHowYouGoes · 08/12/2023 10:04

SirSniffsAlot · 08/12/2023 09:56

Dogs are pack animals.

They are not pack animals. A pack is a stable, hardly changing group of individuals who live together as a secure unit. It rarely changes, save for birth and death. Wolves are often pack animals but despite the common ancestor, dogs are not wolves.

We make dogs live like that but feral dogs do not choose to live like that. They form loose and constantly changing social groups of varying size and make up. Who is 'in' the group varies from hour to day to week.

There are a large number of key social differences between dogs and wolves and the instinct to form a pack (or not) is one of the biggies. It's important because, if a group had a tendancy towards an established linear hierarchy (ie an alpha etc) it would need stability in it's membership. Dogs don't have the instinct for that - they do not form linear hierarchies when they group together. There are individuals who want, or are more likely to fight to gain, or maintain, resources but that's a personality thing and does not make them the boss.

OP, your puppy is 5 months old. If feral, this dog may still be sleeping at night with mum and littermates. That's why they are crying. For sure, some dogs cope better with isolation at an earlier age and some learn more quickly that crying is pointless. But that's also a personality thing. A 5 month old crying puppy is not abornomal - it is entirely within the spectrum of normal puppy behaviour. For the most part, feral young dogs will start to migrate away from mum at 6 months+ with some staying quite a few months longer than that, depending on the individual.

At this age, your dog needs reassurance. If they feel safe and confident, you set them up for the next stage of their development: which is to find independence. (Of course, that will come with a whole heap of other challenges and problems! Smile)

I would start each night sleeping downstairs and then quickly migrate up, leaving your pup. When they cried, I would go down and settle them in as calm and boring a manner as possible, then leave them again. Reassure, reassure, reassure. And have patience. Of the dog still cannot be left at night by about 1 year old, then you have an unusually needy dog.

p.s. reassurance will not reward the behaviour, in case you worry about that. Whenever a behaviour is driven by a negative emotion (such as crying when left alone) you focus on changing the emotion first, and the behaviour will follow. You don't focus on changing the behaviour and hope the emotion falls in line. Your dog is scared, so that is the emotion you need to change.

p.p.s. Dog Training on FB is very good. Southend Dog Training is not. Just to add my voice to the others.

Edited

Brilliant post 👏

Original poster
daisypup · 08/12/2023 10:05

I did do my research, alongside finding an ethical breeder which was difficult.

Barking in the day is not an issue, our neighbours have dogs (one is a Lhasa) so we are all quite used to it. It is constant barking at night that is an issue, or noise upstairs (both neighbours do not have dogs upstairs due to paper thin walls). Whilst I knew there would be some barking in the night, I had not anticipated this would be an issue for so long.

OP posts:
Nordlo · 08/12/2023 10:07

Llasa's can be real drama queens and very highly strung.

Have you tried really tiring him out before bed? As he's gotten older maybe he's not getting enough exercise or mental stimulation. I wouldn't sleep downstairs with him but I would pop him in the crate once he tired and then potter near him until he drifts off. Then leave the room while pottering and make the amount of time your gone stretch longer and longer. Assume you've checked he doesn't need the loo when he's crying? He's still quite small so I'd let him out once if he's crying and then try to resettle with the pottering around him method.

Original poster
daisypup · 08/12/2023 10:13

@Nordlo I tend to do dog puzzles and a bit of training in the evening, followed by some cuddle time to help him wind down. He doesn't settle if I'm moving about, he will just follow me. Even if he's asleep on the sofa next to me the moment I get up he follows me. It's been a bit of an issue as he doesn't get enough sleep due to always following us about.
In the day we sometimes put him in a playpen as he hates the crate but is ok with a playpen, and he is usually able to settle in this. But when we leave the room he becomes upset. He doesn't seem to like being caged into anything which is why we have now given him the run of our dining room (it's a big space).
But yes maybe I could do more dog puzzles in the day and try and tire him out.

OP posts:
MindHowYouGoes · 08/12/2023 10:17

When you look on DTAS have a look at the flitting game - that will help with the constant following

BeadedBubbles · 08/12/2023 10:17

@daisypup - on the issue of your paper thin walls, have you looked at putting soundproofing boards up? Our next door neighbour (semi-detached) did this when our family was young and said they made a big difference. I'm not suggesting this as a way of enabling you to have your dog upstairs but because I know how stressful intrusive noise can be.

Original poster
daisypup · 08/12/2023 10:21

Does anyone have the exact name of the Facebook group? There are a few and I want to make sure I join the right one.

OP posts:
Original poster
daisypup · 08/12/2023 10:22

@BeadedBubbles yes thank you, it's on our list of things to do to the home Smile

OP posts:
Newpeep · 08/12/2023 10:23

This one.

Puppy crying all night
SirSniffsAlot · 08/12/2023 10:23

daisypup · 08/12/2023 10:21

Does anyone have the exact name of the Facebook group? There are a few and I want to make sure I join the right one.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dogtrainingadviceandsupport/

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https://www.facebook.com/groups/dogtrainingadviceandsupport

MuttsNutts · 08/12/2023 10:23

daisypup · 08/12/2023 10:13

@Nordlo I tend to do dog puzzles and a bit of training in the evening, followed by some cuddle time to help him wind down. He doesn't settle if I'm moving about, he will just follow me. Even if he's asleep on the sofa next to me the moment I get up he follows me. It's been a bit of an issue as he doesn't get enough sleep due to always following us about.
In the day we sometimes put him in a playpen as he hates the crate but is ok with a playpen, and he is usually able to settle in this. But when we leave the room he becomes upset. He doesn't seem to like being caged into anything which is why we have now given him the run of our dining room (it's a big space).
But yes maybe I could do more dog puzzles in the day and try and tire him out.

He follows you around all the time. He becomes upset when you leave the room.

The answer is there, you have said it yourself.

He has a need to be close to you. It may not last for ever but at the moment he does and you are only going to make that need greater if you keep trying to leave him alone all night. Only when he is confident that you aren’t leaving him will he settle and relax. And then he probably won’t need to be with you constantly.

But what you are doing at the moment is going to make things worse. Whether you like it or not.

Some puppies aren’t as demanding and don’t mind sleeping on their own earlier but yours is. You can’t make him something he isn’t.

Milliemoos5 · 08/12/2023 10:33

tbf most dogs follow their owners around the house, that is normal don’t worry

you mentioned dog puzzles a few times. Although they are good, he probably may need a lot more physical exercise than puzzles to tire him out.

puppies are bloody hard work ! But your situation is defo more unusual. Thing is, he’ll be crying cos he’s scared and wants company so I think the sleeping downstairs for a bit may be worth a try

ReadtheReviews · 08/12/2023 10:37

@tomatoontoast well they do have the intelligence of a 2 year old child. The ability to laugh www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/canine-corner/200911/do-dogs-laugh%3famp, dream, feel scared, happy, sad. Though I agree their needs are different in many ways as they are indeed dogs. But they aren't as 'lesser' as you might be suggesting by saying they are dogs.

Anyway. Yes OP I think you just need to be with him. Are you also 100% sure he has been out to wee last thing or done all his poop for the day? And are you upping his food to reflect that he will be growing rapidly? Only say this as a neighbour kept their dog on puppy rations for the first year!

justasking111 · 08/12/2023 10:40

AHH a Lhasa apso. My mother had those. Absolutely devoted to her, really highly strung. Awful separation anxiety. I bet there's a Facebook group where you will get advice specific to the breed and issues faced by the owners.

justasking111 · 08/12/2023 10:42

Here we go join this group

Puppy crying all night
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