Shaken up by off lead dogs.

[itsmellslikepopcarn]

More of a moan than anything but WHY do people let their dogs off lead when they have no recall?

Thought we’d take 13 week old puppy on his first trip to a local country park to do some training and a nice walk, along with 4 year old dog.

Older dog has fantastic recall (too anxious to go too far from me!) but is reactive so doesn’t go off lead unless there is no-one around. The second I spot people he immediately goes back on, which happened today.

Two large chocolate labs off in the distance so back on the lead he goes. They’re easily 50 feet away if not more, but start to mosey on over, owners call them back but don’t put them on a lead. Again, they start coming over, bounding over at this point.

Ive got my dog as tight as possible at this point while he’s snapping and snarling at these two who will not respond to their owners. They eventually wander over, not quickly, and get them to come away. My partner says “they shouldn’t be off lead if you can’t control them” at which point the male owner shouts “shut the fuck up!” and turns back towards us, shouting that our dog should be muzzled. There would have been zero issue if his dogs weren’t off lead, my dog was walking along fine ages away until they bounded over, which I explained and he said they were puppies - again no excuse, our puppy isn’t off lead yet because he won’t come back! Also they looked pretty full grown to me.

I wish people would realise the impact things like this can have on anxious dogs. He’s generally pretty good at ignoring on lead dogs (I put him into a sit with chicken until they pass) but there’s nothing he or I can do in that situation. He’s been getting so much better with his reactivity in general and I fear this has set him back down 😔

Unless the off lead dog is aggressive then the worst that will happen is your dog gets a bit annoyed surely.

No, the worst that will happen is that, yet again, his training is set back because he's put in a position where another dog won't leave them alone.

If a dog tried to hump my dog, my dog runs off, no harm done.

If a dog tries to hump my dog, it reinforces to him that he's right to be scared of other dogs approaching him. He doesn't like being humped. He doesn't want to be humped. It's not something he should have to just "put up with"

So many clueless experts. Your little anecdotes and case studies of one are not helpful. Do you think people don't know what's best for their dog from their own lived experience?

But the reason you think it doesn’t happen much is because you welcome other dogs approaching yours

if you had a reactive dog or didn’t want people approaching you would notice how much it happens

^^ I don’t know if I did that right and it’s replied to the comment I selected 🤣

Well, exactly.

If your dog isn't bothered by off-lead dogs approaching then it's probably not something that even registers as an issue. If my dog is off the lead and playing then I'm quite happy for other dogs to come and have a sniff and a play, but if he's on his lead then I expect other owners to respect that.

I'd also argue a dog that does not understand another dog telling it to go away is poorly socialised and too used to pushing boundaries, my three none aggressive dogs won't run up to strange dogs to play because they have their own playmates and don't need to meet strange dogs. Dogs that run up to strange dogs all of the time are acting on a feedback loop of getting excitement of any kind from strangers, it doesn't make it mentally normal for an adult dog to do. If aggression was unnatural, it wouldn't be one of the main behavioural problems in dogs. If you look at how street dogs and feral dogs act abroad, they'll do much worse to a strange dog than barking and snapping at it.

I'd also argue a dog that does not understand another dog telling it to go away is poorly socialised and too used to pushing boundaries

Yes, 100% this. Friendly, well-mannered dogs don't go up to every single dog they see - because they understand body language and respect a dog that's asking to be left alone.

Bit of a silly thing of you to say, how would I know if the off lead dog is aggressive or not? Bit late once it’s charged up to us don’t you think?

but regardless, I’ve normally got 2 other dogs and a toddler, minding our own business, meeting friendly dogs, sniffing and playing, having a great time, but bottom line is, I shouldn’t have to put up with my dog even ‘getting annoyed’ by rude untrained dogs up in our business trying to persistently mount my dog while he tries to get away from them, then inevitably sees them off.. it’s unacceptable that shit owners allow that to happen..

what part of that do you honestly not understand?

fullbloom87 for supposedly such an experienced dog owner, you seem to have a lot of assumptions that because you’ve been through things with dogs, others must be the same. Please do not insinuate that reactive dogs are the result of fearful owners, or that the effort has not been put in with our dogs because yours were resolved within a few weeks.

My dog was abused, thrown in a river as a puppy, and two weeks after he arrived my windows were smashed and my house broken into. I have tried and keep trying for the past 4 years to try and resolve his issues; training, different diets, medication.. he is SO much better than he was, but is still reactive to unknown dogs that run up to him, and with good reason. Every time we make some headway we have another issue with an off lead dog with no training and it’s back where he started. It’s not hard or inconvenient to pop a dog on a lead for 60 seconds or call them over to you and do proper recall training, it is really that simple.

Absolutely. Dogs who carry on after a 'sod off' from another dog have very poor social skills indeed. Common in puppies and adolescents but should not be the case in adult dogs.

Much like if I am walking along listening to The Archers and a stranger comes and starts a conversation for no good reason. I may smile and walk on, or ask them to leave me alone politely and if they follow and continue they have very poor social skills (for whatever reason) or are rude.

Why should dogs be any different? They are a social species, like us (well, some of us!)

They absolutely are.. I have one, so he’s on lead round unknown dogs.

Well adjusted dogs don’t come over to him, cause he’s frantically going, a dog! A dog!!! Only the ones who are equally rubbish and should also be on lead, or want to start a fight... and should very definitely be on lead come over.

My other dog is fine, he’d never rush up to a dog, if he’s allowed to approach he does it politely and will back off if another dog isn’t keen, he’s not running over shoving his nose in where it’s not wanted.

It’s weird how many people don’t see that their dogs have an issue, they genuinely seem to think it’s normal dog behaviour.

I think some people on here to have dogs that behave like robots.

*I think some people on here want other people to have dogs that behave like robots.

Some of the comments on here are completely batshit! Euthanise a dog because it's reactive 🙄🤦‍♀️. Reactive and aggression are two completely different things as any dog person should know.
I have had several rescue dogs that I have worked with and most of them are reactive for various different reasons until we can get some training/ confidence building put in.
I'm just in from a walk with my reactive dog, who has been doing absolutely brilliantly , but still a bit to go, and has been able to be near other dogs quite happily. He and I wear yellow vests to state " rescue in training ". Yet an off lead dog with zero recall started running towards him, so I'm taking mine calmly away from the situation, but by this time the dog is in his face, so he reacts. To be fair to my dog, he's not growling but barking at it to " feck off".
I agre with you OP, if your dog won't come back when called, don't let it off.
My other two dogs are great off lead, but they aren't allowed to run up to other dogs.

Dogs can run without having to run up to every single dog they see. Teach them recall and “leave” and you’re fine.

Exactly. My dog isn't at all reactive, but when he was under a year old he would have happily bounded up to every dog he saw. It was up to me to teach him that he could only approach other dogs if he received express permission. And that only happens when both dogs and both owners are happy for a meeting to take place. I would never let him race up to an on lead dog, but I wouldn't allow him to approach an off lead dog either unless the above conditions were met. My dog is extremely friendly but I am well aware that other dogs may be reactive. It's not hard to put him on his lead briefly.

Not at all. We just want owners to be decent people and keep their dogs on leads if they're not well trained enough to come back when called.

Of course accidents happen - in which case you apologise, get your dog and move on, but so many owners don't apologise and don't feel the need to come and grab their dog. Maybe they don't care or maybe they're embarrassed but either way it's shit dog ownership.

I don’t want dogs to behave any particular way, I want people who own dogs to have at least a basic understanding of dogs and act appropriately.

If you know your dog is an over friendly bully who won’t recall with another dog around, use a lead - it’s not hard to do.

One of mine doesn’t care if a dog wants to play or not, whether it’s reactive or elderly and infirm , or just not up for playing... he’ll bowl up and won’t take any amount of no for an answer, he’s playing and that’s that. So I put him on a lead because I don’t want him harassing dogs and also because any dog will react aggressively eventually if it’s getting unwanted harassment.

The other I can trust to behave politely so if a dog is off lead I’ll leave him, if it’s on lead I can pop him on lead to pass close by.

With either dog I can talk to the owner and sometimes they end up back offlead, sometimes they don’t... no big deal.

Why ruin someone else’s walk for the sake of an extra couple of minutes of off lead time?

I still maintain though that if you are constantly worrying about off-lead dogs pestering your dog, then choose a pavement walk or, say, a National Trust property grounds or similar where dogs are welcome but must be on a lead.

There was a rather notorious woman on the local recreation ground who persisted in taking her leashed small dogs across it, whilst shrieking at people to keep back. She accused a spaniel of being a would-be rapist and had an altercation with someone saying that her dog was in season and male dogs should look the other way. Whaddayado…

I still maintain though that if you are constantly worrying about off-lead dogs pestering your dog, then choose a pavement walk or, say, a National Trust property grounds or similar where dogs are welcome but must be on a lead.

If you own a dog that pesters others dogs then you're being a shit, selfish owner by not putting it on a lead.

And, as has been said numerous times, walking on pavements or on NT property or down roads is no guarantee you won't meet an off-lead dog. It happens all the time.

If you see an on-lead dog approaching, call yours back and put it on a lead until you've walked past. It's not rocket science and if your dog is well-behaved enough to be allowed off-lead in the first place, it shouldn't take any effort on your part to do it.

I just don't get it. See a dog on lead? Put yours on very briefly OR call it to you and walk past.

I can do that with my not even a year terrier puppy. I call her to me and we practice our off lead focus and heelwork as we walk past. If she has her adolescent head on or it's a tight space I pop her on a lead and practice her loose lead walking.

Why is that so hard to do? Why should I have to pick her up awkwardly to save her hurting herself when she is frantically twisting on the lead to get away from a dog bouncing all over her and the owner is casually walking away not giving a shit?

Off lead then fine. Fair game. On lead for a reason. My last dog was bombproof with other dogs but she got injuries and then became deaf and blind so was on the lead on and off her life. I never had an issue with off lead dogs. People had consideration and/or better control of their dogs.

I get what you’re saying, but ultimately that comes down to people and their innocent dogs doing absolutely nothing wrong or nothing to attract attention to themselves, having to modify & restrict their behaviour because of the handful of people who ARE doing something wrong in letting their dogs run here there and everywhere and jump all over other dogs with no consideration for others.

then the innocent people are being told that THEY are wrong, “walk somewhere else”, “muzzle your dog”, “put it to sleep if it’s not happy” all been said on this very thread.. which perfectly demonstrates the attitude of the inconsiderate idiots you come across in real life.

It’s not ALL dog owners though, I find most are great, and accidents do happen during training, but my dog gets jumped on by an untrained dog at least once a week, he’s off lead with me playing with his ball when it happens, so the on lead argument is moot, I actually see it happening more than that but I swerve away from those situations as soon as I clock them, because I know what sort of behaviour my dog will and won’t tolerate from other dogs, and I just don’t want the agro it brings. I should have to do that though is my point.

I think the situation you describe is quite extreme, and it sounds like she had MH issues more than a dog issue in fairness.

That's not average though. Average is the dog who is the other side of the area to the owner/walker and bouncing all over my dog who is on the lead for whatever reason whilst the owner calls half heartedly and walks on. It's not taking a dog on the lead into an area where the majority of dogs are off the lead.

My dog is not on the lead a lot in safe places and I hope that continues. But I respect those that are and I'd like others to respect her if I want to pop her back on the lead for whatever reason. A few weeks ago I was walking her on the lead along the side of a sheep field as the fence was very poor and she could have got through. We were making our way to a livestock free fenced in path where she could run off the lead. We were bounced on by two off lead dogs whilst the owner just walked on. I asked her nicely to recall her dogs. 'Soorrrrrreeeee' whilst she walked on. Please recall your dogs NOW. Oh, ok, come on fluffy and chubby, let's go (at this point it had been over a minute). One dog now growling and getting very rough - my dog is 6 Kg! I have picked her up by this point and eventually the dogs got bored. That is not an uncommon situation where I live now (it wasn't in the past).

That’s awful and really scary when your dog is only small, picking it up is risky in itself though, as some dogs seem to get more excited at that and can then claw and nip you, you shouldn’t ever be put in that position in he first place by stupid ignorant owners.

2 out of my 3 are only small, 7kg and 8kg, I get furious with owners who’s dogs continue to pester them.. because they give off frightened submissive body language, and because of that I’m more protective of them, yet some dogs will carry on being rough and bouncing around on them, I think that is one of the reasons my larger boy dog will now not tolerate unwanted dominant behaviour at all (his patience for it seems to have diminished over the last year or so as the frequency of these events has increased) and will fuck them off after a couple of warning growls now, he deals with them much better that I ever could.

I genuinely think now that the people that claim this sort of thing ‘doesn’t exist’ and they’ve ‘never experienced it’ must be the owners that have these types of dogs and don’t actually care if another dog jumps all over theirs because theirs doesn’t mind as it does it to other dogs.. they think it’s all normal dog ‘friendly and social’ behaviour.. it really isn’t.

I always put dog on a lead if I see the odd dog on a lead coming towards us on, say, on a country walk.

I do object, as I said, to people going where the majority of dogs are running free and then interrupting a perfectly amicable dog meet-up by walking their dog through the middle on a lead and expecting all the dogs to cease playing and be immediately leashed.

My dog had a major operation and was on the lead for a few months as there was a no bundling rule. I wouldn’t have dreamed of running the gauntlet of a popular park and thinking that everyone else’s dog should bow to our requirements.

I do object, as I said, to people going where the majority of dogs are running freeand then interrupting a perfectly amicable dog meet-up by walking their dog through the middle on a lead and expecting all the dogs to cease playing and be immediately leashed.

Well, you can object all you want, but people are free to walk their dogs wherever they like. A dog on a lead isn't bothering anyone.

If you choose to let your dogs play and run free, the law requires you to have your dog under control and if that means occasionally stopping play and calling your dogs back to you, then that's what you have to do. It's not difficult. I do it every single day as a dog walker when my dogs are playing and we see on-lead dogs approaching us. It doesn't hurt me or my dogs to be polite.