Shaken up by off lead dogs.

[itsmellslikepopcarn]

More of a moan than anything but WHY do people let their dogs off lead when they have no recall?

Thought we’d take 13 week old puppy on his first trip to a local country park to do some training and a nice walk, along with 4 year old dog.

Older dog has fantastic recall (too anxious to go too far from me!) but is reactive so doesn’t go off lead unless there is no-one around. The second I spot people he immediately goes back on, which happened today.

Two large chocolate labs off in the distance so back on the lead he goes. They’re easily 50 feet away if not more, but start to mosey on over, owners call them back but don’t put them on a lead. Again, they start coming over, bounding over at this point.

Ive got my dog as tight as possible at this point while he’s snapping and snarling at these two who will not respond to their owners. They eventually wander over, not quickly, and get them to come away. My partner says “they shouldn’t be off lead if you can’t control them” at which point the male owner shouts “shut the fuck up!” and turns back towards us, shouting that our dog should be muzzled. There would have been zero issue if his dogs weren’t off lead, my dog was walking along fine ages away until they bounded over, which I explained and he said they were puppies - again no excuse, our puppy isn’t off lead yet because he won’t come back! Also they looked pretty full grown to me.

I wish people would realise the impact things like this can have on anxious dogs. He’s generally pretty good at ignoring on lead dogs (I put him into a sit with chicken until they pass) but there’s nothing he or I can do in that situation. He’s been getting so much better with his reactivity in general and I fear this has set him back down 😔

Where we live I have a pavlovian response to the sound of a whistle as it means we are about to get assaulted by an off lead labrador (yes, I know whistles can be and area used effectively by many people).

My pup is coming up to 1 now but she has had so many experiences like this, even when we try to mitigate them that it has made her very wary of dogs out and about. Luckily most of the time we can walk and meet very few if no other walkers but we shouldn't have to. We are working to build her confidence around them with known calm and controlled dogs and she has been in class environments very happily since 10 weeks old so I have no concerns.

We were walking today on paths and I saw an onlead dog so popped mine back on so we could do a nice controlled walk past with her focused on me (which she did beautifully) but was then told I should let mine play with his on lead dog who was on lead because 'he'll start playing but then never come back' 😐

It shouldn't have happened, OP, you're right, but the sad fact is that it does. I had this issue with my elderly dog who was deaf and turned reactive to dogs when they suddenly appeared out of nowhere to jump all over her. I got a bright orange jacket for her with DEAF on the side, I body blocked her when other dogs came in her direction and had no qualms about grabbing people's dogs by the harness or collar and holding them till they retrieved them, and also shouting whenever I saw someone with dogs who looked like they were about to ambush us 'MY DOG IS OLD AND SCARED, PLEASE CALL BACK YOUR DOGS'.

Yes, people think you're an arse and come over with the 'he's just friendly' spiel but I grew not to care because the alternative was my poor 14yo dog being put in a bad situation. You have to make yourself a bit obnoxious I think, hard as it is.

On a practical note, a very loud, voice of God STOP! with a flat palm is enough to make a lot of dogs think twice about approaching you. You can then advance on them with a 'GO BACK NOW' and only the most confident will ignore that. Scattering food can also work to give you time to move away.

I will also pick up my dog (she is 6.5 Kg) if I feel we're going to have a situation as I want her to know I am going to solve her problems. Dogs make poor decisions if allowed to.

Ah that sounds tough, one of my partners dogs is blind and has a huge “give me space - I am blind” thick lead but I’ve found no-one pays any attention. I definitely try my best to control the situation but it’s hard, I end up panicking, by the end of the it I was sat in the grass getting choked up, although I think the aggression of the owner didn’t help. I shouted over “my dog is reactive, he will bite!” but they didn’t speed up at all. We very rarely go to parks as it is because of so many experiences like this, we stick to just the local roads.

Thank you, I will try that in future. I get panicked and just try to focus on controlling my dog away from them but I’ll try that before they come too far in future. He’s 12kg so picking him up is too hard for me.

Op I think you are being unreasonable because you are putting your anxious and reactive dog in this situation which is only going to make him worse and worse. You can't control other people only your own actions. You would be better off going to a secluded spot to train your puppy and anxious dog. Also look up 'cross packing' as this is an essential skill for both dogs and owners. It's the ability to keep moving and literally cross packs with another dog or dogs without stopping. By stopping and training your dogs in the middle of a public area, you are not able to cross packs safely and are likely to encounter this again and again. Remember you cannot control others that's the reality. You can only change your own actions. Like training dogs in a more controlled and private environment.

On a practical note, a very loud, voice of God STOP! with a flat palm is enough to make a lot of dogs think twice about approaching you.

I can confirm that this works, though I use “NO!” I did it last week and the dog stopped immediately, turned around on its heels and ran back to its owners who had been frantically calling it the whole time that it was charging toward us.

We went to a country park, which is 80 acres and only saw about 5 other people the entire time we were there. Lots of other dogs were off lead, most of them went back to their owners once called and I was able to control my dog because they didn’t come too close. Why should I keep my dog walking on the same pavements every single day because others can’t train their own dogs recall?

and FYI I’ve been to various trainers seeking help for my dog, he’s been on three different types of medication, nothing has worked. I’ve tried for years. He’s a rescue who was abused and thrown in a river, but yeah I’ll keep him away from everyone because some people can’t put their dogs on leads.

Dogs learn best from other dogs. In all honesty I wouldn't be walking your pup with your older dog as you are likely to end up with two anxious dogs.

Can you take pup out separately from older dog? He really needs to build confidence alone rather than learning from his best mate that the world is quite scary.

Yes we have been walking them separately as well. He met quite a few other dogs today (partner was walking him) who he was happy to meet whilst I kept my older dog at a distance. We also do regular trips to our friends house who has 3 dogs he’s met and played with nicely.

Muzzle training will give your ddog a new lease of life. Our rottweiler hated ddogs getting close. We once sat on a bench on the seafront - 1 of about 50 benches - 1 man and his spaniel decided 'our'bench was the favoured one - ddog muzzled still going nuts... No sense in some humans op. Expect an idiot and you will never be disappointed ime.

Why should I keep my dog walking on the same pavements every single day because others can’t train their own dogs recall?

Because you are putting your reactive dog in a situation where he or she is clearly uncomfortable as as you say, not everyone can control their dogs. You can't change other people's behaviour, you can only change your own actions and not put your dog in that situation.

I also agree with a pp that you would be better off training the puppy separately where you can devote your entire attention to their training session and not have the stress about the other dog being set off and in turn affecting the puppy's ideas of what is and isn't a real threat. If anything you will want to socialize your puppy with off lead dogs. So better to walk them separately.

I agree dogs shouldn’t be off lead without reliable recall. Mine loves other dogs so I immediately recall and put on lead when I see a new dog.

Responsibility works both ways. You can’t guarantee everyone is an owner who understands reactivity etc. If your dog is reactive to the point of biting it needs to be muzzle trained.

I hear you OP - it's so frustrating.

As for PP saying you shouldn't walk reactive dogs in public because you can't control other people's actions - what exactly do you think the solution is?

We have no secure fields within an hour of our house.
People still let their dogs off the lead on pavements, or let them run out of their doors/gardens without leads on.
Getting up at 5am or staying up until 11pm doesn't work because there are still loads of dog walkers out and about.
Our local industrial estate is home to several "shop dogs" who regularly escape and roam off the lead.

Reactive dogs still need to be walked and are just as entitled to be out in public as any others. Dogs should not be off the lead unless they have a reliable recall and a dog who persistently ignores another dogs signals to fuck off is not a polite, friendly dog at all.

You can only change your own actions. Like training dogs in a more controlled and private environment.

Where are all these controlled, private environments where you're guaranteed not to meet other dogs then?

@cinnamonfrenchtoast
Run Free Fields and other secure fields can be hired.
I have fostered/rescues many dogs and if need be dogs can be muzzle trained (baskerville never closed mouth) whilst it's beyond frustrating the dogswho bound up, OP you're putting your dog in a horrible position that he is trying to defend himself by snapping etc, imagine another dog got too near?
It's your job to protect and keep
him safe and if that means a muzzle then so be it, I hope he is double leased too as there a possibility he will break away from you and anxious scared dogs are incredibly difficult to bring in, also you panicking and being nervous will feed his anxiety, you need to be sure and confident.

Run Free Fields and other secure fields can be hired.

As I said earlier, there are no secure fields anywhere near us. Our nearest is over an hours' drive away. Not everyone has access to secure fields and private spaces.

Thank you for this. We also get off lead dogs on pavements around here, I live at the end of a cul-de-sac and people let them off for them to promptly trot over and shit on my lawn, everyone else has gotten rid of theirs for driveways.

it’s not just reactive dogs either, what about elderly dogs, ones recovering from surgery, young puppies?

I shouldn’t have to hire a private field every time I want to give my dog a walk that isn’t just round my local streets. He has never bitten another dog, but he snarls to give them the warning to back off, which obviously most don’t. I dunno what other people would do when two large Labradors are running around your feet trying desperately to get to your dog. We would have zero issue walking if people kept their dogs on lead if they can’t be recalled.

Where are all these controlled, private environments where you're guaranteed not to meet other dogs then?

keep doing what you're doing and you will keep getting what you've got. A stressed dog who is lashing out at anyone that comes near. I don't in understand why you would keep stressing out your already stressed dog op? How you would like the world to be is different to how it is. In the meantime your dog suffers. If you post a rough location op, we can suggest some nearby options.

The majority of dog owners are selfish and don't care about children, other dogs or adults basic right to be safe and not jumped over or attacked. It's simply the fault of the victim and their 'furbabies' were provoked into killing little dogs or tearing a child's face off.

I'm sorry you and your dog were shaken up. If off lead dogs approach you aggressively you have ever right to defend yourself and kick them away. If you are in fear of injury it is fine even if the owners cry about how 'friendly' their dog is and how they 'just want to play.'

Don't become one of these dog owners either. Remember how it made you feel.

I'm not the OP. I'd just like to know where you think all these private, controlled locations are

However if your dog has been extensively trained and medicated several times and still failed- perhaps the dogs quality of life is very poor and euthanising may be the kindest thing to do. I'm sure there will be hysterical replies to this but there usually is if anyone dares to talk about dogs.

I wish it was as easy as finding a private, controlled location - believe me. But they just don't exist where I live. Lots of people own dogs and they let them off their leads with no regard for anyone else.

They're off lead by roads, on pavements, in "lead only" areas, in car parks, on industrial estates, near livestock, on the beach, in the woods, in fields, in the town centre - everywhere.

Why should I keep my dog walking on the same pavements every single day because others can’t train their own dogs recall?

Yes, it’s annoying when other dogs are off lead and come bounding up to you. I hate it too.

However, the situation is not likely to change as more people are out walking their untrained dogs these days, so as @Leopardchange kindly pointed out, you can only change your own response to the situation, or carry on moaning and feeling pissed off.

I take my dog out v early in the morning to the local woods for a run and occasionally we see the same 1-2 owners with theirs at that time. If I go later, there’s often more people walking their dogs, so I prefer to set out early and be done for the day. DH walks him on a lead, later in the afternoon on the local roads as he’s prefers the walk.

Jesus fucking Christ 😂 on the whole he’s a very happy boy. Happily gets along with dogs he’s properly introduced to, shared his home with one other dog, children and my family. 99% of the time he’s walked around our local area which he’s familiar with and happy with, and zero reactive to dogs on leads who don’t come bounding up to him. He doesn’t like the vets or dogs that run up to him off lead, but yeah I’ll consider euthanasia 🤔