Shaken up by off lead dogs.

[itsmellslikepopcarn]

More of a moan than anything but WHY do people let their dogs off lead when they have no recall?

Thought we’d take 13 week old puppy on his first trip to a local country park to do some training and a nice walk, along with 4 year old dog.

Older dog has fantastic recall (too anxious to go too far from me!) but is reactive so doesn’t go off lead unless there is no-one around. The second I spot people he immediately goes back on, which happened today.

Two large chocolate labs off in the distance so back on the lead he goes. They’re easily 50 feet away if not more, but start to mosey on over, owners call them back but don’t put them on a lead. Again, they start coming over, bounding over at this point.

Ive got my dog as tight as possible at this point while he’s snapping and snarling at these two who will not respond to their owners. They eventually wander over, not quickly, and get them to come away. My partner says “they shouldn’t be off lead if you can’t control them” at which point the male owner shouts “shut the fuck up!” and turns back towards us, shouting that our dog should be muzzled. There would have been zero issue if his dogs weren’t off lead, my dog was walking along fine ages away until they bounded over, which I explained and he said they were puppies - again no excuse, our puppy isn’t off lead yet because he won’t come back! Also they looked pretty full grown to me.

I wish people would realise the impact things like this can have on anxious dogs. He’s generally pretty good at ignoring on lead dogs (I put him into a sit with chicken until they pass) but there’s nothing he or I can do in that situation. He’s been getting so much better with his reactivity in general and I fear this has set him back down 😔

Walk to heel? You know your dog would LOVE to run free right.
There's no need for a dog to be reactive and scared. Usually it's picking up on it's owners fears. If you can't raise a happy dog that feels safe and stable then you're not suitable to own a dog. I've adopted many dogs. Some have come to live with us and they've had issues. Issues that have been resolved in a few short weeks with lots of love and care.

Dogs can run without having to run up to every single dog they see. Teach them recall and “leave” and you’re fine.

As I said as well, puppy was absolutely fine. We’ve been letting him meet dogs on walks, around our house and at other peoples house. I don’t let him meet every single dog he sees because I don’t want him to lose his shit thinking it’s playtime with every dog.

@Itisyourturntowashthebath
My dogs have good recall but they meet other dogs, play and socialise daily on their runs.
Never once been attacked. They tend to stay well back from reactive owners dogs, because dogs are smart like that.

@fullbloom87 I do let my dogs run but if I see a dog on a lead I recall them if we are in a big space or pop them on the lead in a smaller space.
no big deal.

A fellow dog owner fosters dogs and is very experienced. They’ve commended my dog for understanding when an anxious dog needs space and time and helping that dog. Dogs learn this from other dogs, not from limiting interactions to people you know. They need exposure, talking to other dog owners is highly beneficial not just people you already know.

It honestly is that simple, isn’t it? Popping your dog on a lead for a minute or two. Thank you for being considerate.

Most responsible dog owners get them to walk to heel when you're passing other dogs on lead, or if you can't manage that then put them on a lead to pass other dogs on lead then let them off again to run free, it's common courtesy and it's not hard.

Not always. My dog was attacked by a dog on a lead once as we walked past on a narrow path with her at my heel.

I’ve had mine on lead, walking near another on lead dog. Other dog has snarled and tried to bite mine. Being on lead doesn’t make you the responsible owner, muzzle training does.

Extraordinary how aligned your views are.

Most responsible owners of reactive dogs don't allow them anywhere near other dogs.

But in any event, we're not talking about on lead dogs. But off lead ones that have no recall.

@Hmmmbetterchangethis sounds like a good plan. Let me know how it goes.

There is no way any off lead dog should be approaching another uninvited. Some people don't want to restrain their dog because it's annoying? I don't care what your dog is doing as long as it stays well away from me and mine.

My reactive old rescue was never aggressive and never bit. He was scared. But he didn’t need euthanasia because he was happy all the time, at home, on walks. Happy, happy.

Except when big bouncy friendly dogs bounded into him and little dogs jumped up at his face. Then he would bark and be scared. He still didn’t bite so didn’t need muzzling but would then be more likely to bark at dogs that looked a certain way if they got close. A tricky cycle. We could do lots of training but it would get set back by friendly dogs…

It's annoying because you're lazy and selfish. What you're basically saying is that you can't be arsed to train your dog properly, so everyone else has to suffer the consequences.

And I say this as the owner of a friendly, non-aggressive, sociable dog with the loveliest of temperaments.

I know that my dog will not approach another without express permission, but other people don't know that. What does it cost me, when I'm walking through fields, and he's running free just to call him over and make him stay with me while a dog on a lead walks passed? He can go and continue what he's doing once the dog has passed. It's not spoiling his walk, or mine to take a minute to consider another person and their dog. To offer them a simple bit of reassurance so they're not going into a panic thinking what my goofball could do.

Will a muzzle prevent your dog running over to theirs? I'm not sure it would. We have a local greyhound who is muzzled and walked tightly on a lead, the amount of dogs who still run over to them when he is clearly walking round the edges of park, avoiding everyone, is way too high.

Comments like this make me think we need a test for dog owners, like the driving test. Click on the hazards. What do you do in this situation?

The sense of self-entitlement is ridiculous.

@Hellohah
I'm lazy and selfish? Why because I bothered to trained my dogs and take them on long runs and not just round the block??
My dogs don't just run up to any dog. Why do you insist that my dogs do??

you can't expect people to put their dogs on leads all the time just because you don't want to muzzle your dog.

For owners of friendly sociable dogs it's annoying to have to put them on a lead for snappy aggressive dogs who's owners won't muzzle them in public!

Because you’ve quite heavily implied above that you think a reactive dog should be muzzled to stop any issues when your dog meets theirs.. when in reality your dog shouldn’t be meeting them uninvited anyway.

If you recall your dog to heel or put it on a lead when you come across a dog already ON a lead like you should, then why would the dog on a lead have to be muzzled? As it wouldn’t be anywhere near yours to cause a reaction in the first place?

it’s selfish to expect other people in control of their dogs to have to go to extra measures because you don’t control yours? I think that is what people are saying.. not sure where this walking around the block thing came from?

So my dog is friendly, she isn’t reactive or aggressive, but she has absolutely no interest in other dogs and never wants to play. For her, me and her ball are all she wants/needs. I have her off lead as she has recall. I still don’t want other peoples dogs to come over so I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for reactive dog owners.

But we also need to stop with the whole on lead off lead debate - you shouldn’t let your dog approach anyone without asking. Period.

I’ve had countless people let their dog come running from the other side of a field to us, thinking it’s fine because my dog is off lead, only to be shocked when my dog ignores theirs and we either walk away or have to stand and wait for them to collect their dog.

it’s annoying and it interrupts my walk with my dog. I don’t want to stand and make small talk with you while your rude dog annoys mine and she tries her best to ignore them.

As people have said on this post already, you don’t even have to put your dog on a lead, just have it under control and not approaching other dogs/people. (Although I’m a strong believer that it’s just polite to put your dog on a lead when passing, if someone else’s dog is on one. I can heel my dog past but it’s nice to put the other persons mind at ease as they don’t know that and it takes 2 seconds to clip a lead on).

and before anyone replies saying all dogs need to be social - she is. We have friends we meet up with and she goes on a pack walk every week with a dog walker. Even on those she is more interested in a ball than playing with other dogs.

I’m lucky that it’s just an inconvenience on our walks because my dog is neutral but I really feel for reactive dog owners. I think everyone should go on a walk with a reactive dog and maybe they will understand why they’re in the wrong for letting their friendly (but really, just rude) dog come running over.

Exactly.

Nobody should be letting their off-lead dogs approach on-lead ones. Dogs are on leads for all sorts of reasons - not just reactivity. If your dog is as well-behaved and friendly as you say, it shouldn't be any issue for you to recall it away and pop it on a lead for thirty seconds while you walk past.

Hell, you don't even need to use a lead as long as your dog stays away from others.

People have no business having their dogs off the lead if they don't have reliable recall around others.

No that's not what I meant.
What I meant was, if your dog is aggressive then they should not leave the house without a muzzle, not just for dogs but children and other people too.
I don't think off lead dogs should have to spend their lives on a lead having boring walks just because your dog is aggressive.
My dogs have recall, they're also not stupid and wouldn't dare go near a dog or owner that seemed nervous of their presence, nor do I allow it .
But all I read on here is how all dogs should be kept on leads all the time because their dog hates other dogs.
One tip is relax. If you seem scared your dog will be scared too. One of my dogs started off very scared due to poor previous owners and was completely relaxed sociable and happy within 3 weeks because she saw how confident and calm I was. Try it!

It feels like you’re backtracking because what you’re talking about, aggression and reactivity are two different things, IMO aggressive dogs which seek to attack people and animals unprovoked should be muzzled in public.

Reactive dogs, which is what the thread is about are something completely different. They are usually frightened for one reason or another, or they’ve been abused, and they should able to be walked without fear of other dogs running over to them, they only ‘react’ to a situation, they don’t cause it, they should never be put in that position by other selfish owners who insist their dogs are ‘just being friendly’, when really they have no control of them.

no one is saying your dog needs to have boring walks, simply stating that when you come across other people with dogs on lead you should call your dog to heel or put it on a lead, to stop it approaching whoever it likes, it’s common dog walking etiquette in shared spaces. A lot of problems would be avoided if people showed courtesy to each other rather than just doing what they like and sod everyone else.

But all I read on here is how all dogs should be kept on leads all the time because their dog hates other dogs.

literally NO ONE has said that, so I’d suggest you’re purposely misinterpreting what people are saying.

I don’t personally have a reactive dog, all my dogs are walked off lead, keep themselves to our little pack and are not allowed to approach on lead dogs, one of my dogs has a problem with strange dogs running over, pestering him and trying to mount him when he shows absolutely zero interest in them, but for the most part I let him deal with that himself and he chases them off if the owners don’t call them back after I warn them.

What I meant was, if your dog is aggressive then they should not leave the house without a muzzle, not just for dogs but children and other people too.

We're not talking about aggressive dogs, though.

I really appreciate the people advocating for reactive dogs and even more so when they don't have one themselves. They can be hard work and it can be soul destroying hearing him get called a bad dog or being thrown dirty looks because he's petrified a dog is getting close to his threshold. We've had a year of (positive reinforcement) training at a substantial cost and whilst we're loads better, I doubt he'll ever be 'cured' (even if I relax!) and definitely not if he's being approached by other dogs. We just want to be left alone.

One tip is relax. If you seem scared your dog will be scared too. One of my dogs started off very scared due to poor previous owners and was completely relaxed sociable and happy within 3 weeks because she saw how confident and calm I was. Try it!

I find these comments so patronising.

Not everything is down to poor ownership. Some dogs are just terrified and no amount of owners "relaxing" will change that. And every single time they're approached by another dog who just won't fuck off, they're set back even more.

My own reactive dog is absolutely perfect with dogs he's been introduced to properly. He plays nicely, understands body language and has never had a single issue. But he's been attacked several times while walking on a lead and now he's (understandably) terrified when a strange dog approaches him and won't leave him alone.

He's never bitten another dog. He's never even tried. He just wants to be left alone to enjoy his walk. I can't let him off his lead either because he will just bolt off in a panic.

I don't understand why some owners are so reluctant to just put a lead on their dogs for a few seconds. It's not bloody hard.

@sandyhappypeople

If your dog reacts negatively to other dogs then it has aggressive tendencies doesn't matter if they only get aggressive when approached they should wear a muzzle in case a child wanders past. It's the responsible thing to do .

Like I've said a hundred times mine have recall so mine won't go near you or your dog.
Don't know why you keep making out like all dogs are out of control.

Maybe you're a bit paranoid and it's rubbing off on your dog.

If your dog reacts negatively to other dogs then it has aggressive tendencies doesn't matter if they only get aggressive when approached they should wear a muzzle in case a child wanders past. It's the responsible thing to do .

What does reactivity to rude dogs have to do with wearing a muzzle in case a child walks past?

Not allowing dogs to learn from a young age social interaction from older dogs is a sure way to have a reactive dog. They can’t learn this from us because, well, we’re not dogs!

^This 100%!

Humans have a lot to answer for, including the way we treat our pet dogs. Nope, you are not allowed to play with Fido- he's huge and scary!

I went to Latin America a few times... the way people treat dogs there is a real eye opener.... they basically spend their time on the streets with their mates while the owners are out working. Come dinner time, they return home and spend the evening with their humans.
And while it's a rose tinted few, there wasn't a dog that seemed aggressive towards people or other animals dogs. They were road savy and did mind their own business - so no harm done.

I think they have a better life than their British counterparts...

I think they have a better life than their British counterparts...

That depends how you define a "better life" though.

Are these dogs vaccinated? Are they given appropriate medical care? What's to stop them getting lost or being taken? What happens if they get sick and the owners can't afford the treatment - are they shot/dispatched or just left to fend for themselves on the streets? How many of them have fleas, or mites, or mange or are infested with ticks?

You only have to watch those "Animal Cops" shows to know that lots of countries have a huge issue with "street dogs" - it's not all roaming free and then coming home to a warm bed at night.